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A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

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Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#171

Post by thaumasiotes »

mikeash wrote: post #94
clarky07 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a difference between pickpocket and breaking and entering. I'm guessing if someone else came into your house or place you were staying you'd be pretty scared and think that it was pretty unacceptable behavior deserving of some serious jail time. After 3 times, it seems reasonable to escalate the penalty a bit. Perhaps life is too severe, but it should be for a long damn time.

Is it already time for the "imagine you're the victim" rhetoric? There's a reason we don't let victims decide criminal penalties.

> There's a reason we don't let victims decide criminal penalties.

True, but the process for determining what criminal penalties should be is heavily based on "imagine you're the victim".

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#172

Post by meric »

clarky07 wrote: post #120
avenger123 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredible. Please, please take a step back and read what you wrote. Now, for each of those instances you described, please assume this is your uncle, brother, cousin etc? Do you still feel the same? No one is saying these people did nothing wrong. The main issue is that the punishment does not fit the crime. That's it. Simple. Where do we draw the line? Obviously for you the line is ok where it is at. But, frankly,…

you clearly don't know me at all. I have a cousin that has stolen large sums of money from and threatened bodily harm to my grandma along with several other convictions that i'd like to stay in prison for a long time. I've got an uncle that I have similar feelings for. Also, you should re-read what I wrote. I also said that perhaps these don't deserve life, but "a long time" does seem reasonable. Finally, how is secu…

Breaking and entering: $1000's of damage, per instance. Insider trading: $100,000's of damage, per instance. Enforcement level of insider trading is also low, so a person can commit many more times the crime of insider trading before they're caught.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#173

Post by fleitz »

latch wrote: post #125
lostlogin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to sign the Ottawa treaty (anti landmine) and the international criminal court agreements, execution of minors (and execution at all), assassination of opponents even if citizens (via drones), torture, war crimes, illegal invasions, use of phosphorus (probably comes under war crimes), continual killing of civilians in non declared wars, massive prison population, secret prisons, outsourcing torture, supportin…

It's easy to distill these issues and hold a self-righteous opinion, but I personally find most too complex to form anything resembling an educated opinion. Take land mines. I've heard that they play a critical role in South Korea's defense, which was a major reason Clinton didn't sign. Military experts talk about how it's an effective tool that, when used responsibly, can benefit civilians more than harm them. They…

I'm pretty sure North Korea used the exact same reasoning when they didn't sign.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#174

Post by Jtsummers »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #168
Jtsummers wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't favor speeding tickets at all; as far as I can see, they're just a way for governments to capriciously collect extra revenue from people without giving it the politically unpopular name of "taxes". > Repeated-burglaries guy is obviously opting out of functioning in society. If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence, I'd say we should keep him incarcerated and spend le…

Two points: - Driving below the speed of surrounding traffic is much more likely to cause an accident than driving at a "high" speed. The speed of traffic is essentially always above the speed limit. (Which might itself give you pause in characterizing it as "reckless, dangerous driving".) - Reckless, dangerous driving is an independent offense, which can be (and is) charged separately from speeding.

1) I've not seen the numbers, but I'll concede that's likely true, particularly on highways.

2) For someone who wants long sentences for other offenses, it seems odd that you don't see that control of speed (particularly on city streets, my view on highway speed limits is different) and ticketing of speeders is also a pretty effective mitigator of reckless driving on those same streets. It doesn't stop it, we'll never stop crime until everyone becomes a saint (IOW, never), but reducing the occurrence is a nice tradeoff.

Now that that's out of the way, care to respond to the part where you suggest the cost of life in prison (to the taxpayers) is worth preventing 3 more non-violent burglaries (if he keeps to his average)?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#175

Post by fleitz »

cbaker wrote: post #156
cmccabe wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government. If you're unhappy with that, maybe you'd like to move to North Korea, China, or any of those other countries where people like you are allowed to shut down critical thinking.

Didn't Snowden have to flee to China and then Russia so he could criticize his government with out fear of summary execution?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#176

Post by thaumasiotes »

Jach wrote: post #132
GuiA wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, question- if you actively support putting people behind bars with the intent of seeing them die there, why not just kill them right away? If the intent is for them to not cause any harm to society, then that'll get the job done while saving money for society and making them suffer for a shorter period of time. Unless the goal is to make them suffer for their entire life as punishment; in which case, why not just…

Personally, I would support hanging them high instead of putting them in prison for life... except I do hold certain relevant beliefs about the future of humanity. I think there's a decent chance that before this century is out, us humans will have mastery over our brains (which may or may not be the same gooey brains we've always had), and I think it would be tragic if we put even a bad man to death instead of impri…

> then fixing his brain when the technology comes along.

This is not an improvement over killing him.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#177

Post by fleitz »

baddox wrote: post #162
lostlogin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to sign the Ottawa treaty (anti landmine) and the international criminal court agreements, execution of minors (and execution at all), assassination of opponents even if citizens (via drones), torture, war crimes, illegal invasions, use of phosphorus (probably comes under war crimes), continual killing of civilians in non declared wars, massive prison population, secret prisons, outsourcing torture, supportin…

> Who sees the US as a leader in human rights? The vast majority of people who are raised in USA public schools.

It's called mandatory education for a reason :)

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#178

Post by fleitz »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

Good point, it's too bad authorities never caught up to that Oliver kid. The gall to ask for more gruel and then turn to a life of crime!

They should have locked him up for life.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#179

Post by clarky07 »

meric wrote: post #172
clarky07 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you clearly don't know me at all. I have a cousin that has stolen large sums of money from and threatened bodily harm to my grandma along with several other convictions that i'd like to stay in prison for a long time. I've got an uncle that I have similar feelings for. Also, you should re-read what I wrote. I also said that perhaps these don't deserve life, but "a long time" does seem reasonable. Finally, how is secu…

Breaking and entering: $1000's of damage, per instance. Insider trading: $100,000's of damage, per instance. Enforcement level of insider trading is also low, so a person can commit many more times the crime of insider trading before they're caught.

Breaking and entering - very traumatic to someone.

insider trading - traumatic to no one. I'm not sure what these "damages" you speak of are. Someone wanted to buy or sell stock, and an insider bought or sold it. Sure, they have more information, but someone always has more or different information. carl icahn and warren buffett have more information than me about a lot of things. yet we trade on the same market everyday. many economists argue that it should be legal, and it is a victimless crime. "Other critics argue that insider trading is a victimless act: a willing buyer and a willing seller agree to trade property which the seller rightfully owns, with no prior contract (according to this view) having been made between the parties to refrain from trading if there is asymmetric information. The Atlantic has described the process as "arguably the closest thing that modern finance has to a victimless crime""[1]

i can't imagine how someone can suggest that insider trading is a worse crime than breaking and entering.

also, FWIW, if you want to get mad at insider trading, don't get mad at martha stewart. She went to jail for it. Get mad at the fact that it is completely legal for politicians to insider trade. I mean WTF. They get non-public important information on a regular basis and for whatever bizarre reason we decided that they can trade on it but nobody else can. WTF?

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading#Arguments_for_l...

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#180

Post by collyw »

jodrellblank wrote: post #102
rfnslyr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody else constantly live in a state of guilt? So many lives lost and wars fought just to get us to where we are, and we reap the benefits. I feel so guilty for having a good paying job in the city. I'm not adding any value to the world, none at all. I tinker with a few codes every day and make silly amounts of money, when there's people struggling to put food on the table working 18 hour days. I need to do s…

What can I do? I don't belong here. I'm just another waste of space. Isn't everyone? Why is working 18 hours of labour a day inherently more valuable or useful to humanity, the planet, the universe, anything? Why is someone struggling inherently a better, more worthy person than anyone else (and by what standards?). Would you really prefer a world where everyone has to struggle to survive, because that's where it sou…

I worked for an investment bank before for a year. I work for a genome sequencing centre now. In both cases building / maintaining databases. The work is paid less, and there is less opportunity to earn lots in the future, but I do feel better about myself for not being part of the corrupt self serving finance system. Many of our projects are involved in cancer research, so its doing the tiniest bit towards helping the world.
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