Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues Well, the common knowledge is wrong . We are surrounded with background radiation every day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation
Since I have the tab open at the moment: This natural background radiation is not harmless, as the effects of high exposure to cosmic background radiation (e.g. by frequent trans atlantic flights) or high radon levels in homes or local soil on cancer incidence have shown. [85, 86, 87, 88] It can be assumed that a certain proportion of the 'naturally' occurring cases of cancer are caused by constant exposure to 'natur…
Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
41–50 of 61 posts
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've not seen any effect on the radiation debate from Fukushima. The people saying that small amounts of radiation are harmless or even beneficial were saying that long before Fukushima. The people who were saying any radiation is bad are still saying it.
What I'm getting from that is that the Japanese are saying "Our Japanese radiation is different, and this small amount won't harm you".
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#43The oarfish warned us, but did we listen?
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#44It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…
Just so HN readers know… this ^ quote is total bullshit.
--[TL;DR Response]-- The USSR did not take responsibility or implement good clean up from day 0; at all. They lied/covered up as much as they could, for as long as they could, endangering their own land, people, and economy. Chernobyl is historically regarded as a propaganda clusterfuck and a major economic, civic, and political failure of modern history.
--[Full Response]-- I could argue a number of this guy’s points, but the specific claim that the USSR excelled at “taking responsibility” and implementing an institutional clean up/response “from day 0”, is the polar opposite of all existing historical and scientific fact.
The historical fact here is that the USSR’s response to Chernobyl was horribly botched, heavily manipulated by propaganda, and that the public was extremely uninformed of the context, causes, and consequences (both immediate and future), of the disaster.
The response was swift, yes, but dangerous, uninformed, and unorganized. Even the military/emergency crews and government employees/engineers first sent in to respond to the disaster, were lied to about the specifics and risks of the incident. For civilians in the USSR, there was a total information black out for the first 2 days. Most citizens gleaned only limited facts/information, days and weeks later, largely via rumor or from international media. Effective institutional response (from inside the USSR) and more accurate reporting only arrived after much international pressure and media attention. The major civilian backlash at the falsehoods and failures of Chernobyl, and the extreme financial expense of the disaster, was one of the final blows in exposing and crippling the Gorbachev regime.
[Source: I'm an environmental historian and science teacher]
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that these 300 saved lives of others because of what they did? Do you think it was necessary at that point just to - I'm sorry for putting it that way - sacrifice them ?
> Do you think that these 300 saved lives of others because of what they did? No, I think it was overall a waste of human life. The situation could have been handled far better by putting out the fires immediately -- those were spewing toxic, radioactive smoke into the air. After that, however, instead of attempting a coverup, the first priority should have been evacuation. Once people were out of harm's way, there w…
Our guide pointed out a piece that some idiot had brought up from the highly irradiated basement.
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
They lost about 300 first responders and exposed at least 100,000 reservists to very dangerous levels of radiation in the cleanup operation. Some of the video and stories of the cleanup are quite crazy. Source: I visited Chernobyl and Pripyat in April.
Do you think that these 300 saved lives of others because of what they did? Do you think it was necessary at that point just to - I'm sorry for putting it that way - sacrifice them ?
The cleanup operation wasn't much better - men cleaning nearby reactor roofs in 45 second shifts and heavy lead aprons because the radiation was too bad for a fleet of robots to function.
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since I have the tab open at the moment: This natural background radiation is not harmless, as the effects of high exposure to cosmic background radiation (e.g. by frequent trans atlantic flights) or high radon levels in homes or local soil on cancer incidence have shown. [85, 86, 87, 88] It can be assumed that a certain proportion of the 'naturally' occurring cases of cancer are caused by constant exposure to 'natur…
I like those scare quotes around 'natural'.
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#48It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#49I got an email about this quake over an hour ago - here is the USGS link if anyone else is interested in setting up similar notifications[1]. You can set up customized magnitude ranges for customized parts of the globe, it's a pretty neat little service. Rule of thumb for context is 7.0+ happen about once a month and 8.0+ happen about once a year... I have it email me about every 7+ on the globe and I think every 3+…
Isn't the USGS planning to discontinue this service shortly?
Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since I have the tab open at the moment: This natural background radiation is not harmless, as the effects of high exposure to cosmic background radiation (e.g. by frequent trans atlantic flights) or high radon levels in homes or local soil on cancer incidence have shown. [85, 86, 87, 88] It can be assumed that a certain proportion of the 'naturally' occurring cases of cancer are caused by constant exposure to 'natur…
We can talk about radiation all day, but I guess the larger point is: "There have been no acute radiation syndrome fatalities reported due to the Fukushima accident, while approximately 18,500 people died due to the earthquake and tsunami. Future cancer deaths from accumulated radiation exposures in the population living near Fukushima are predicted to be extremely low to none." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima…
Future cancer deaths from accumulated radiation exposures [...] are predicted to be extremely low to none. Yes, but I find the paragraph in the source [1]
Even the worse case scenario — a dose of 50 mSv — poses a fairly minimal risk.
However, the models showed that infants living in Namie could have got a higher
dose to their thyroid, of 100–200 mSv. That higher dose would be due mainly to
radioactive iodine-131 blowing from the plant immediately after the accident. Brenner
says a dose of 200 mSv to a female infant under a year old might mean a 1% risk of
developing thyroid cancer over her lifetime (by comparison, the lifetime risk in the
United States is 0.02%).
So if you then look into the WHO report which triggered the nature blog post [2], and especially appendix D, you will find that there was quite a lot of necessary smoothing of the data, for example, the difference between the average contamination of seafood and the maximum sample is a order of magnitude. And it is actually quite easy to construct a scenario, where consumption of a specific Tuna is a death sentence.So I think that a argument can be made for nuclear energy, but this argument should not be "no one will ever know we killed her. " The argument should include sentences like [3]:
[...] My offers were such as to give me a risk equivalent to that faced by an American soldier
in World War II, according to my calculations of plutonium toxicity which followed all generally
accepted procedures. These offers were made to all three major TV networks, requesting a few
minutes to explain why I was doing it. I feel that I am engaged in a battle for my country's
future, and hence should be willing to take as much risk as other soldiers.
[1] http://blogs.nature.com/news/2012/05/world-health-organizati...
[2] http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44877/1/97892415036...
[3] http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter13.html