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Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

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Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#21

Post by benihana »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #3

It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…

Could it because of the way Chernobyl was handled? The USSR lost a lot of people cleaning up that mess.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#22

Post by jlgreco »

ori_b wrote: post #16
jlgreco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USSR as bad as it was it took responsibility for the Charnobyl catastrophe. There was Army and the Government involvement on all levels to clear it up from day 0. In Japan years after the incident the Government is still finger pointing some CEO trying to operate that facility. To expand on this point, if Fukushima were Chernobyl and Japan the USSR, the Sarcophagus would have been completed on October 27th, of 2011…

If Fukushima were Chernobyl, it would have needed a sarcophagus. However, it was already designed with containment that worked, and as a result, a sarcophagus wouldn't have changed anything. In fact, building a large concrete structure over the reactor core would probably have complicated cleanup efforts by limiting access. In effect, Fukushima already had a sarcophagus integrated into the structure of the building i…

Absolutely; hence "if Fukushima were Chernobyl".

I don't mean to suggest that Japan should build a sarcophagus; I only mean to give an idea of the sort of timescale for significant engineering tasks that the Soviets were working with. They slammed it into high gear pretty rapidly.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#23

Post by robomartin »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #3

It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…

> I hate that because this is precisely one of these things that gives capitalism very bad name.

I don't see how this has anything to do with capitalism. I just can't read it that way no matter how I look at it. I've worked extensively with Japanese companies. It's a cultural and political problem. Nothing else.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#24

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

yk wrote: post #14
jlgreco wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USSR as bad as it was it took responsibility for the Charnobyl catastrophe. There was Army and the Government involvement on all levels to clear it up from day 0. In Japan years after the incident the Government is still finger pointing some CEO trying to operate that facility. To expand on this point, if Fukushima were Chernobyl and Japan the USSR, the Sarcophagus would have been completed on October 27th, of 2011…

The constraints of Fukushima and Chernobyl are vastly different. First of all, in Chernobyl the surrounding infrastructure was not destroyed. Second, they had an open reactor in Chernobyl, so it was immediately clear that they need to build a sarcophagus. By contrast in Fukushima the biggest problem is water management. And especially the management of contaminated ground water, while it is not clear that a sarcophag…

My point is that the Government should be the one trying to resolve that issue. Not Tepco. My claim is we would be all better off if a state could throw in its resources to help with the Disaster after effects. They seem just to sit there and blame Tepco instead of doing their job.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#25

Post by antris »

yk wrote: post #18
antris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues Well, the common knowledge is wrong . We are surrounded with background radiation every day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

Since I have the tab open at the moment: This natural background radiation is not harmless, as the effects of high exposure to cosmic background radiation (e.g. by frequent trans atlantic flights) or high radon levels in homes or local soil on cancer incidence have shown. [85, 86, 87, 88] It can be assumed that a certain proportion of the 'naturally' occurring cases of cancer are caused by constant exposure to 'natur…

We can talk about radiation all day, but I guess the larger point is:

"There have been no acute radiation syndrome fatalities reported due to the Fukushima accident, while approximately 18,500 people died due to the earthquake and tsunami. Future cancer deaths from accumulated radiation exposures in the population living near Fukushima are predicted to be extremely low to none."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disas...

So why are we talking about the radiation here? The effect is meaningless in comparison. Why aren't we talking about what to do about tsunamis?

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#26

Post by choult »

benihana wrote: post #21
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #3

It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…

Could it because of the way Chernobyl was handled? The USSR lost a lot of people cleaning up that mess.

They lost about 300 first responders and exposed at least 100,000 reservists to very dangerous levels of radiation in the cleanup operation. Some of the video and stories of the cleanup are quite crazy.

Source: I visited Chernobyl and Pripyat in April.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#28

Post by w1ntermute »

beachstartup wrote: post #9
LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #3

It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…

japan still denies the atrocities of ww2 against american POWs, china, phillipines, etc, etc. in fact they kind of just gloss over the whole war. compare them to germany and the contrast is stark. japan is not a cute fuzzy pet culture limited to anime and sushi. it's an insular island culture that's just as bad as anyone else in history. it's too bad it takes a full-blown nuclear disaster for people to realize this.

> japan still denies the atrocities of ww2 against american POWs, china, phillipines, etc, etc.

Uhhh, no: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_...

Stop listening to Chinese and Korean (both North and South) propaganda.

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#29

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

choult wrote: post #26
benihana wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it because of the way Chernobyl was handled? The USSR lost a lot of people cleaning up that mess.

They lost about 300 first responders and exposed at least 100,000 reservists to very dangerous levels of radiation in the cleanup operation. Some of the video and stories of the cleanup are quite crazy. Source: I visited Chernobyl and Pripyat in April.

Do you think that these 300 saved lives of others because of what they did? Do you think it was necessary at that point just to - I'm sorry for putting it that way - sacrifice them ?

Re: Tsunami advisory in northern Japan after 7.1 magnitude earthquake off coast

#30

Post by maratd »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #3

It is interesting that before Fukushima the common knowledge was that any amount of radiation is bad and may cause health issues. We can see how after the Fukushima this morphed into a little radiation may actually mobilize your immune system to protect the body from radiation-related illnesses like cancer. Another thing is this - and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that - USSR as bad as it was it…

> and I'm a right wing pig here if you'd like to call me that

I have far worse things in mind.

> USSR as bad as it was it took responsibility for the Charnobyl catastrophe.

The most horrific aspect of how it was handled was that they didn't tell anyone. They desperately tried to keep it quiet. They didn't even tell the people doing the emergency work what they were actually doing, many of whom sacrificed their own lives without knowing anything.

You could have had evacuations, people simply getting out of the way themselves, but no, there was silence. Only when it was clear that they couldn't keep things under wraps, did they own up to it. By that point, it was too late.

I was five at the time, living in Kiev. I remember being in kindergarten and I remember they rounded everybody up and told us they were going to take us away, an evacuation. But then they cancelled it. Nobody knew what was happening or why. Eventually my mom came home early, but she didn't know what was happening, only that something was happening. It was days before we found out and moved to stay with our relatives further north.

Wikipedia seems to support my memory of the event.

"The general population of the Soviet Union was first informed of the disaster on 28 April, two days after the explosion, with a 20 second announcement in the TV news program Vremya."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Immediate_cr...

I'll take the Western approach to things. Capitalism and all. I don't care who's to blame or who goes to jail. I want to know so that I can protect myself.

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