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Because it needs to be said

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#541

Post by gregd »

Dalkore wrote: post #530
chris_wot wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote: > she could have easily denied him the opportunity when things started getting too close. That's garbage. She said she froze up "like a deer in the headlights". She sounded terrified, so no - it wasn't easy at all.

Two words: Personal Responsibility. The fact she admit she froze up would in my mind maybe give the person the benefit of the doubt that he was not trying to be purposely malicious. That is the real issue here when we want to throw around terms like "sexual assault". What matters is the intent of the person when they commit these acts not that technical some sexual contact was made that was not invited when two adult…

What was Joe's personal responsibility? Why do people insist on bringing Justine's personal responsibility into this equation but not Joe's?

He was in a position of power over her which most firms with an HR department are very specific about.

Two words: Rape Culture. Rape culture exists when we continue to question the motives of the victim. The fact that many of you continue to excuse his behavior and question hers, leads me to believe that we're going to see way too many cases of this in our lifetimes. It's no fucking wonder these things continue to happen. The sexual assault apologists in this thread is really disheartening and frankly, appalling.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#542

Post by chris_wot »

general_failure wrote: post #503
steveklabnik wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent to a body shot is consent to a body shot. Let's not even bring up the coercive aspect here. Consent to a body shot is not consent to sex afterward.

huh ? They didn't have sex. Did you read the article or do you know something we don't.

Entering your fingers into a woman's vagina is generally considered to be a sexual act. Did you really think he was a gynocologist doing an examination?

Re: Because it needs to be said

#543

Post by Dalkore »

makomk wrote: post #359
hrvbr wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my first impression is that she's very fragile and passive. "Assault" is a too strong word if the guy let her go when she left for a smoke. And why didn't she punch the aggressor? Friends can be punched too. Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. If someone uses his physical force against us, we're not supposed to just say "please stop" as if the guy were respectful enough to obey. And she went back to…

If she'd punched her aggressor, people would instead be complaining about how she overreacted, and how their first impressions are that she's very hostile and aggressive, and she should just have said no again more firmly (I can remember this happening before). Female rape and sexual assault victims basically can't win no matter what they do.

How about a compromise, walk away. Pull away. Or clearly say Stop it or No. All those would of worked just fine. What I am saying is that a victim usually has no alternatives when they are victimized. From her own account, she had the ability to exercise any of the items listed above to remove herself from this situation.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#544

Post by chris_wot »

ck2 wrote: post #98
ddagradi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the post, she was punished by the law for that (DUI). What else are you asking for?

There's no mention of punishment, only arrest. I'm asking, insisting actually, she doesn't drive if she is going to do drugs. Getting sober is a better request but I cannot make her do that, she has to find a way herself.

She says she went to jail.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#545

Post by chris_wot »

general_failure wrote: post #522
steveklabnik wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read the last paragraph. She didn't want to make this post, but an outcry for details from the community forced her hand.

"forced her hand" Oh my. This is assault. She was forced to do something she didn't want to. The exact definition of assault. Which community is this? Are you part of this community? Why are we not exposing this community. Steve, please help us expose this vile and malicious community which forces people. Today it's blogs. Tomorrow who know what it is.

That's not the definition of assault, and you know it. The government frequently makes me do things I'd rather not do. Like pay taxes, or fines, or get a license, or a qualification to practice some sort of job.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#546

Post by gregd »

Dalkore wrote: post #543
makomk wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she'd punched her aggressor, people would instead be complaining about how she overreacted, and how their first impressions are that she's very hostile and aggressive, and she should just have said no again more firmly (I can remember this happening before). Female rape and sexual assault victims basically can't win no matter what they do.

How about a compromise, walk away. Pull away. Or clearly say Stop it or No. All those would of worked just fine. What I am saying is that a victim usually has no alternatives when they are victimized. From her own account, she had the ability to exercise any of the items listed above to remove herself from this situation.

Here's a compromise. Don't sexually assault people.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#547

Post by throwaway86 »

kingkilr wrote: post #91
frankdenbow wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here: http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spiraled...

I'm familiar with the incident (I current serve as the co-chair of the PyCon Program Committee, as well as a board member for the Python Software Foundation). I'm just curious if the OP was implying that anything would have been better without a CoC?

Things would have been better if everyone in the situation acted like adults. No matter how detailed and specific the Code of Conduct, Adria probably would have done what she did anyway.

Rather than worrying about the effects of shaming people publicly, conferences are basically putting up "no glass in pool area" and announcing their triumph at conquering this problem.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#549

Post by chris_wot »

volvelle wrote: post #454

Why has she not reported this to the police? Why did HR not do it also? Sexual assault is defined in law, and many people are (rightly) convicted and imprisoned over these serious offences every year. Justine is not averse to talking about the issue with strangers over the Internet; why is the law any different? In order to secure an arrest, the police need to be satisfied a crime has occurred (multiple witnesses are…

It's often very hard for a victim to report a sexual assault. I hope she does, but you can't force someone to.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#550

Post by Dalkore »

justin66 wrote: post #111
hawkharris wrote: post #25

My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true. Prior to being falsely accu…

> I applaud the author for sharing her experiences. This post is eloquent and courageous. Having said that, a blog post is not the right place to seek justice. In fact, the information here may interfere with a trial. I encourage her to delete this post and initiate a criminal trial in order to hold the perpetrator accountable. It's pretty clear to me that the author is not interested in seeking justice and is more i…

She has pressed charges via the internet. Many of the people on here have accepted judgement and this will stick with Joe for ever. Yes Joe made a very bad choice and was he being malicious by moving forward in his advance KNOWING Justine did not want any part of it. The looks to be a hard argument to honestly make. I am not convinced by her own account. Intent matters and I doubt Joe intended to sexually assault one of his own employees in front of his other employees in a bar. That is the real question here.
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