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Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#511

Post by icecreampain »

jasonlotito wrote: post #376
icecreampain wrote: post #169

This article confuses me. 1. Why do work collegues party with each other? Isn't work for work and non-work for non-work? Why mix the two? That's asking for shit, throwing professionality out the window. At my recent places of employ I have religously avoided any private contact with my collegues. This gives me an air of professionality and a sense of trust = "Icecreampain will treat me fairly because he is not best f…

> That's asking for shit, throwing professionality out the window. Professionals can enjoy a party and not have shit happen. > This gives me an air of professionality Do you understand the distinction of having an air of professionalism and actually being professional? And that's fine. If you can't handle a party without asking for shit, it's good that you know the limits of yourself and your coworkers. However, don'…

> Do you understand the distinction of having an air of professionalism and actually being professional?

I was assuming that being professional also gives out that air. It's been a while (20 years) since I've used English as my primary language so my grasp of some concepts has loosened somewhat.

Also: being Swedish I'm from a country that knows to get proper drunk at parties, and a whole bunch of stupid shit happens at office parties. Shit that could easily be avoided by not being there to start off with...

Re: Because it needs to be said

#512

Post by gregd »

brazzy wrote: post #287
erikpukinskis wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why didn't she punch the aggressor? She was in shock. > Saying "no" isn't enough to claim she resisted. Why does it matter if she resisted? Is it not rape if you don't resist?

> Is it not rape if you don't resist? It's not rape if the other person has no way of telling that you want them to stop.

It's not rape if the other person has no way of telling that you want them to stop.

The fact that you committed this sentence to HN boggles my mind.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#513

Post by steveklabnik »

eddiedunn wrote: post #243

I'm disgusted by this whole thing. Here's a lot of people jumping to conclusions based on the one-sided account of one person's blog post. Hasn't it occurred to you people that she might be lying? I'm not saying she is, but there is a possibility. We have legal processes for a reason. Based on her account alone, I can say this: 1. She's very emotionally unstable and needs to seek professional help, for her own sake a…

> based on the one-sided account of one person's blog post.

... as well as corroboration by two other witnesses.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#515

Post by chris_wot »

pearjuice wrote: post #501
Confusion wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She must have at least expected something, no? No. A body shot is not an invitation for anything. A body shot taken from a girl with a boyfriend is not an invitation for anything. A body shot taken from a girl with a boyfriend, while hanging out in a bar with 'geeky guys' that just 'loosened up' is not an invitation for anything. If you think it is, you have a problem. To answer your question again: no. Just no. No…

So you regularly see body shots in a non-sexual content? When could she expect it, then? What would have made the difference between this body shot and a "normal" body shot? I am not saying it was an invitation. It might not be but she cannot possibly do a body shot without expecting a fully grown alpha male to take his chances. Even if she didn't, she could have easily denied him the opportunity when things started…

You wrote:

> she could have easily denied him the opportunity when things started getting too close.

That's garbage. She said she froze up "like a deer in the headlights". She sounded terrified, so no - it wasn't easy at all.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#517

Post by Perseids »

arrrg wrote: post #510
Perseids wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please calm down. Neither have I said that, nor do I believe it. For unrelated reasons - namely that I don't believe naming and shaming is a working justice system and that it diverts from the underlying social issues - I would prefer to leave names out of such blog entries. But the reason for my post is that I found the quoted passage to be one of the many oversimplifications that crop up again and again in these di…

Naming and shaming? What the hell are you on about? You want victims of crime to shut up. That’s what this boils down to. Plain and simple. Very black and white.

I'm sorry, but do you actually read what I am writing?

"For unrelated reasons [...] I would prefer to leave names out of such blog entries"

First of all, I did not say anything about shutting up in that sentence. Second, even if you interpret "leaving out names" as "shutting up" I wrote "prefer" and not "must" or "have to".

Re: Because it needs to be said

#518

Post by chris_wot »

pearjuice wrote: post #500
gregd wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not missing the point of pearjuice' argument. In each of his/her posts, he shifts the blame from the perpetrator (Joe) to the victim (Justine) and follows up by taking it to some weird extremes "So what women need to start doing is carrying guns? If a man starts touching you without your consent you shoot them, simple, right?" and using Wikipedia to define body shots and erogenous zones. You do it in your post wi…

I hope you never get accused of rape.

Same here. But it seems that it will be unlikely, given they have shown pretty clearly they understand that a. if you are the boss, don't make advances on underlings, and b. they are unlikely to make an advance until they are sure thy have communicated clearly with the other person.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#519

Post by chris_wot »

general_failure wrote: post #451
gregd wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pearjuice, you continue to take your arguments to ridiculous conclusions in order to justify what happened to Justine. Just fucking stop. We aren't talking about brushing up against someone at the bar. Her fucking boss took the body shot as an invitation to sexually assault her. What's so fucking difficult to understand about that?

Maybe you can try to understand pearjuice's comments and fucking think for a while.

I think he does understand pearjuice's comments. He seems pretty appalled by them, which is pretty understandable really.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#520

Post by chris_wot »

general_failure wrote: post #455
gregd wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus christ. Lying down on bar - doing body shot != permission to sexually assault.

I disagree. I have never heard the term body shot before but from all wikipedia tells me, I would conside it acceptable for a man to grab a womaons ass if the woman was in a body shot. If the woman screams no that's a different this g but it didnt happen here.

That's a pretty sick position to take. You think it is ok to sexually assault someone if they allow body shots on a bar?
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