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Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

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Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#251

Post by teamonkey »

sbierwagen wrote: post #155
justin66 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bottlenecks in their escape were the doorway and the crew's deployment of the inflatable slide. Rushing the door in a panic would have done nobody any good. In a situation like that, why wouldn't you grab your bag if it was readily accessible? It seems like healthy, rational behavior rather than a symptom of extreme confusion.

The bottlenecks in their escape were the doorway and the crew's deployment of the inflatable slide... why wouldn't you grab your bag if it was readily accessible? Wrong. In order to be certified airworthy, you have to be able to evacuate an airliner in 90 seconds, in the dark, with some of the emergency exits blocked. Here's an A380 doing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAkAcQOnQY Here's a 777: http://www.youtube…

They should show that as the pre-flight video.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#252

Post by duncan_bayne »

JshWright wrote: post #209
ericcumbee wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check the lower third on CNN "Fire Chief: Fire Fighters went to work right away" I mean really? they did not stop for some in and out on the way to the scene?

One of my favorite CNN quotes from the day: "Video taken soon after the crash and posted on YouTube showed dark gray smoke rising from the plane, which appeared to be upright. That smoke later became white, even as fire crews continued to douse the plane." Uh... that's what happens when you put water on fire... you get steam, which condenses into white clouds. That's a basic rule of firefighting... black bad, white g…

Why is brown particularly bad?

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#253

Post by duncan_bayne »

shock-value wrote: post #169
austenallred wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that I'm "excited" about a tragedy (I'll remove the word "potential" as so far at least two people have died) is unfair. You make it seem like I'm getting stoked that a plane crashed. I'm not trying to "hawk" anything, but am trying to help create a system that will help people understand the world around them in a better, more efficient way. If linking to it in this thread feels cheap then I apologize, but th…

Edit: scratch the original response here, I mixed your username up with another user's reply. Sorry about that. I still feel you shouldn't be promoting your website/news service in this thread, however.

What proportion of people browsing this thread would you say are here for professional reasons (say, commercial pilots), or personal reasons (say, might know some of the passengers and / or crew)?

My guess: the vast majority of people reading this thread on HN are here for entertainment. Given that, why bitch about someone hawking his wares?

It's not like he crashed a funeral or something.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#254

Post by duncan_bayne »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #129
ceejayoz wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know they train for it, but the coolheaded professionalism there is remarkable - tower, other planes, all of them.

That's why airlines like to get pilots with military experience. They are exposed to more crazy scenarios in training and work and generally keep a cool head better under stress.

Hmmm - but: military pilots are also known (especially in some cultures) for an over-strong respect for hierarchy, resulting in a willingness to go along with dangerous instructions. Also, at least some military pilots are trained to have a higher risk acceptance than civilian pilots.

Personally, I'd be very happy having an ex-military pilot flying me around; I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons. But do be aware that the cons exist.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#255

Post by pyre »

sneak wrote: post #250
ars wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would actually waste WAY WAY more time as each and every person will try to open the lock, and fail. Then some of them will really fight with the lock refusing to leave.

Not if there's a giant LED-lit "LOCKED" next to the handle, which is explained by crew before take-off. Even if they ignored the crew, they'd see the lighted "LOCKED" next to/on the handle. Mitigating against that exact misunderstanding was part of my suggestion - otherwise you could just lock them with no lights/explanation, but then you'd run into the problem you describe.

That doesn't stop people from panicking (e.g. "My stuff!") and attempting to break the lock. In the NTSB report, people were arguing with the flight crew over whether or not to leave their luggage during evacuation.

Edit: I'll add that I was in a retail store (employee) that was evacuated by police, due to an armed gunman. People were still worried about the office chair or shredder that they wanted to buy. An officer had to basically get up on a counter, and hold up his gun and badge and say, "Everyone out! Now!"

On the way out some guy was trying to ask me if we would be open later because he (apparently) really wanted to get this office chair he was looking at.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#256

Post by narsil »

51Cards wrote: post #47
bryanh wrote: post #29

High quality close up photo from https://path.com/p/1lwrZb : https://pathakacdn-a.akamaihd.net/photos2/f36a5729-6db7-40db...

What a phenomenal photo and speed of information. People are still exiting with their bags in hand, incredible. THIS is one of those moments when you realize how social media and mobile devices have changed the world.

dba7dba: you've been hellbanned and your comments are marked [dead]. I would contact the admins about it, since I can't see why, based on your comment history.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#257

Post by ars »

sneak wrote: post #250
ars wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would actually waste WAY WAY more time as each and every person will try to open the lock, and fail. Then some of them will really fight with the lock refusing to leave.

Not if there's a giant LED-lit "LOCKED" next to the handle, which is explained by crew before take-off. Even if they ignored the crew, they'd see the lighted "LOCKED" next to/on the handle. Mitigating against that exact misunderstanding was part of my suggestion - otherwise you could just lock them with no lights/explanation, but then you'd run into the problem you describe.

And even with a locked message, each person will still try and open it anyway. (You've never disbelieved a sign and tried something for yourself? You've never said "I have to see/try that for myself, even though someone told you what was/did/will happen?)

It's human nature. You have to work with it, not against it.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#258

Post by sbierwagen »

blake8086 wrote: post #222
sbierwagen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bottlenecks in their escape were the doorway and the crew's deployment of the inflatable slide... why wouldn't you grab your bag if it was readily accessible? Wrong. In order to be certified airworthy, you have to be able to evacuate an airliner in 90 seconds, in the dark, with some of the emergency exits blocked. Here's an A380 doing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAkAcQOnQY Here's a 777: http://www.youtube…

You linked the same video twice. (thanks, though)

Whoops.

And of course I check back 7 hours after the edit window.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#259

Post by zecho »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #252
JshWright wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite CNN quotes from the day: "Video taken soon after the crash and posted on YouTube showed dark gray smoke rising from the plane, which appeared to be upright. That smoke later became white, even as fire crews continued to douse the plane." Uh... that's what happens when you put water on fire... you get steam, which condenses into white clouds. That's a basic rule of firefighting... black bad, white g…

Why is brown particularly bad?

In a house fire, brown smoke generally signifies structural fire, rather than the contents. I have no idea about aircraft. The situation matters, I would assume. Reading smoke is more art than actual science.

Re: Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashes at SFO

#260

Post by sbierwagen »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #252
JshWright wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite CNN quotes from the day: "Video taken soon after the crash and posted on YouTube showed dark gray smoke rising from the plane, which appeared to be upright. That smoke later became white, even as fire crews continued to douse the plane." Uh... that's what happens when you put water on fire... you get steam, which condenses into white clouds. That's a basic rule of firefighting... black bad, white g…

Why is brown particularly bad?

http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-158/iss...

  White smoke that is slow or lazy is most likely indicative 
  of early-stage heating. One more important note about smoke 
  color: brown smoke. Unfinished wood gives off a distinctive 
  brown smoke as it approaches late-stage heating (just prior 
  to flaming). In many cases, the only unfinished wood in a 
  structure are the wall studs, floor joists, and roof 
  rafters/trusses (photo 3). This can tell you that the fire 
  is transitioning from a contents fire to a structural fire. 
  Using our knowledge of building construction-especially 
  lightweight structural components and gusset plates-brown 
  smoke issuing from gable-end vents, eaves, and floor seams 
  becomes a warning sign of impending collapse.
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