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What is Happening in Istanbul?

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Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#451

Post by eru »

dmix wrote: post #422
eru wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by a "large state"? Measured in government expenditure as part of GDP there are big variations between countries. (Incidentally, Singapore has one of the smallest states around.)

Measuring state power purely based on yearly expenditure is a very limited perspective. At the same time I don't know enough about Singapore's current economic/social situation to comment. I was only stating an observation on the nature of states ability to expand in scope and power regardless of limitations enacted at initiation.

Yes, it is a very limited perspective. On the other hand, it is one for which data is widely available.

> I was only stating an observation on the nature of states ability to expand in scope and power regardless of limitations enacted at initiation.

Yes, as e.g. the USA nicely demonstrates.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#452

Post by lostlogin »

lmm wrote: post #444
lostlogin wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent comment - the saga of stolen Jewish stuff took just a wee while to start to be repatriated...

The fact that swiss banks stuck to their rules and required ownership to be established in the normal way even in the wake of such a dramatic tragedy speaks to their incorruptibility.

It's a pity that wasn't done with the initial deposits.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#453

Post by lostlogin »

balsam wrote: post #307
enraged_camel wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

You know, actually the US isn't that much freer in practice compared to Singapore. In theory, perhaps. And the reason has less to do with the decline of rugged individualism amongst soccer moms than the existence of a constant low-level background threat, whether from terrorism, a sizable underclass, law enforcement, or (this might be embarassing for some) alcoholism. They don't check IDs for alcohol in Singapore. If…

Practical example of freedom? Having your bag searched before entering a museum (Paris)? Bomb detectors at a church (Vatican)? Stopped for random police checks (London)? Passport recorded by hotels to use the Internet (Italy)? If this is freedom, I'm not impressed. (Examples are about 5 years old, things may have changed, I hope they have).

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#454

Post by lostlogin »

jackowayed wrote: post #246
venus wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means. > decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth Long term, if political freedom doesn't…

> Long term, if political freedom doesn't bring wealth, then what is the bloody point? Seriously? You think that everything a government should strive to guarantee is a means where the end is wealth? You don't think that equality, freedom to criticize questionable government practices (even those that improve GDP), or anything else should be a goal in itself?

I seem to remember a lottery that was run in 1984 - the Orwell book.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#455

Post by mseebach »

trotsky wrote: post #282
mseebach wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any half-competent political hack can spin anything so it's "pro citizen". A staggering proportion of citizens are in favour for the privacy/security trade off, it's just that We Know Better(tm). Of course Google and Apple should pay their fair share, I just can't get excited about it, I don't see how adding more money to the same semi-corrupt deeply immoral special interests buffet that brought you SOPA, and simulta…

you don't think government spending benefits anyone but politicians? So for instance, medicare only benefits politicians?

Well, Medicare is underfunded to the tune of $38T. If all of Google and Apple was liquified at current market cap and put towards funding that liability, it would be underfunded by at little more than $37T. Retroactively cancelling the Iraq and Afghanistan wars would give you cash to knock the number down to $36T.

Of course people benefiting from Medicare benefits from Medicare, but "championing" Medicare benefits only politicians, because they know better than anyone else that it's going to go away, soon, but they'll happily lie about it in order to get reelected while they wait for it to happen.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#456

Post by mseebach »

Ygg2 wrote: post #369
mseebach wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It didn't start that way. It started peacefully. OK. But as it did not end peacefully, not really relevant. > The government escalated the situation when they tear-gassed peaceful protestors. How is this relevant except to excuse the behaviour? The protesters didn't respond to the escalation by consolidating their resolve and standing their ground, they started destroying random people's property. > Once the govern…

Or the government sneaked in their people to delegitimize the protesters. This is a well known way police or covert agencies work. Usually if protesters are well versed in such tactics the ring of strongest forms the ring around rest of the mass to protect them from interlopers that would give police a provocation they needed to attack the protesters or to delegimitize them.

How very convenient. Hand-wave it away: Maybe the police did it.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#457

Post by ascotan »

fakeer wrote: post #433
mda wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I partially disagree with your comment about corruption. This part:"Turkey on the other hand is rampant with corruption, especially the current government." Corruption on upper levels probably never disappears, but at least on the lower levels, where people really got hurt and dreaded most, things got better with current government. As someone who lived in Turkey for quite long time, I can say I was pleasantly surpri…

USA, the land of the free - land of no corruption - land of emancipator - land of liberating bombings - land of the powerful, ranks 9. Wow! Interesting map. I really do not know what this map considered as corruption. A little explanation shall sure help!

RTFM? The source questions are listed in the download.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#458

Post by lmm »

lostlogin wrote: post #452
lmm wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that swiss banks stuck to their rules and required ownership to be established in the normal way even in the wake of such a dramatic tragedy speaks to their incorruptibility.

It's a pity that wasn't done with the initial deposits.

Huh? The burden of proof for for pulling property out of someone else's account in their name is and should be higher than for depositing things in your own account.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#459

Post by ascotan »

balsam wrote: post #307
enraged_camel wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I am speechless. As someone who was born and raised in Turkey, and visited Singapore for long periods of time, let me say very clearly: you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Turkey and Singapore are two completely different worlds, with different histories, cultures, and geopolitical situations, and are not related in any shape or form. There may be a few surface-level parallels, but that's wher…

You know, actually the US isn't that much freer in practice compared to Singapore. In theory, perhaps. And the reason has less to do with the decline of rugged individualism amongst soccer moms than the existence of a constant low-level background threat, whether from terrorism, a sizable underclass, law enforcement, or (this might be embarassing for some) alcoholism. They don't check IDs for alcohol in Singapore. If…

Depends on what your talking about. I didn't get a caning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore) last time i threw gum on the sidewalk in the US.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#460

Post by lostlogin »

lmm wrote: post #458
lostlogin wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pity that wasn't done with the initial deposits.

Huh? The burden of proof for for pulling property out of someone else's account in their name is and should be higher than for depositing things in your own account.

Absolutely agree. Some of the looted stuff was obviously just that however, and they hung onto it rather too long as well. Just who they should give it back to wouldn't have been easy though.
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