Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What is Happening in Istanbul?

defnesumanblogs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

421–430 of 519 posts

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#421

Post by eru »

nairteashop wrote: post #331
tome wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If caning its own citizens is not evidence of a nanny state that treats people like children, I don't know what is. Not that I want to sound like a supporter Singapore's judicial system but I didn't expect to hear this from a citizen of a country that is allowed to kill as a form of punishment. (Making the assumption that you are from the US, apologies if I got that wrong).

No, you got it right (I'm not american, but I live here). And I absolutely agree with you - like caning, capital punishment has no place in an enlightened country, and I sure hope it is eradicated from the US, and throughout the world, soon. I was merely disagreeing with the parent's assertion that Singapore has some form of enlightened government that doesn't trample on personal freedoms, and treats its citizens wit…

Caning doesn't seem worse than prison. Especially not American prisons.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#422

Post by dmix »

eru wrote: post #418
dmix wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never, for long periods of time. Modern societies have never really lived without a large state. So almost every new society (or post-revolution) in history adopted that same practice. But usually with new limitations. The problem is that once the state is instantiated and given broad power, their power continues to grow and expand out of self-interest and desire for control. Regardless of capitalism or socialism. As…

What do you mean by a "large state"? Measured in government expenditure as part of GDP there are big variations between countries. (Incidentally, Singapore has one of the smallest states around.)

Measuring state power purely based on yearly expenditure is a very limited perspective.

At the same time I don't know enough about Singapore's current economic/social situation to comment. I was only stating an observation on the nature of states ability to expand in scope and power regardless of limitations enacted at initiation.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#423

Post by mda »

makmanalp wrote: post #370
mda wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read, listened hundreds of things about events, but honestly, all I see is vague hand wavy things about the real cause. "Lack of adequate response.. No official plans to celebrate May 19.. No alcohol sale after 10pm.." Seriously? I maen really?, To me this this whole mess seems to be reduced to "Hey police pepper sprayed my friend yesterday, and btw I also hate this government and PM. I am going in." reaction.

Let me give you a quick chronology of what happened. It was a peaceful sit in in May 27th to 30th. On the 30th at 5am, police walked in and tear gassed protestors and burned their tents. Strike #1. People gathered back at 1pm, and did yet another peaceful sit in. Protestors red eachother and the police books, sang songs. Police attacked them yet again with tear gas and pressurized water. Strike #2. They kept doing do…

I am not trivializing, I am away from the country for long time, I am really trying to understand. So from what you wrote I think that you agree with me, they are mainly rioting because police is using excessive force to rioters?

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#424

Post by comicjk »

chrischen wrote: post #309
jackowayed wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Long term, if political freedom doesn't bring wealth, then what is the bloody point? Seriously? You think that everything a government should strive to guarantee is a means where the end is wealth? You don't think that equality, freedom to criticize questionable government practices (even those that improve GDP), or anything else should be a goal in itself?

I think you probably went through the US education system? US schools brainwash kids into thinking that democracy and freedom to criticize the government are inherently good concepts, but in reality they are only desirable because of the practical effects it may or may not produce. There are no universal morals, and because of that you can't say democracy is inherently "right." So I have to side with your parent and…

I agree that there are no universal morals. I propose this solution: we let everyone follow his own morals as much as possible, and when it's impossible for everyone to be satisfied on a given point, we vote on it.

Constitutional democracy is not a denial that people have different morals - it's based on that fact.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#425

Post by ptaipale »

pknerd wrote: post #128

The funniest thing is that US is worried about protest. Ahem, someone should remind Administration about Occupy Wall Street and violent moves by Obama Administration.

I don't there's anything funny. You may think that the Turkish government is your enemy, but your enemy's enemy is not necessarily your friend.

Take the Arab Spring: is there more liberty, better law, better civil rights in the countries where the dictators were overthrown? I'm unclear on that, and certainly some places have moved from secular, predictable dictatorship to a very unpredictable, unstable situation.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#426

Post by ptaipale »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #286
ars wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are correct. The active ingredient in Agent Orange is routinely in use for weed control. > > It is incredibly toxic and forbidden by the UN after the horrific effects it had on both the Vietnamese and Americans exposed to it. It's not forbidden by the UN, the active ingredient is 2,4-D and is the 3rd most used herbicide in america. The other ingredient 2,4,5-T is non toxic, but making it commonly contaminate…

Thanks for the explanation, I wasn't aware of that. When they say it's a derivative, they probably mean closer to that herbicide then? I still haven't heard anything about it actually being used there, but would that seem at all reasonable to you? A police force that uses tear gas and don't want to kill people, would they plausibly use such a derivative for the same purpose?

"When they say it's a derivative, they probably mean closer to that herbicide then?"

When they say it's a derivative, they most probably mean that they saw something orange, and that is why they call it Agent Orange. Unfortunately, the average person seeing teargas is fairly ignorant about chemistry and biology. It makes no sense to spread a herbicide in a demonstration. It is harmful in the long term but has no impact on people in the short term, thus is just no use in that situation.

Agent Orange was called AO because the containers it came in had an orange strip. The substance itself is colourless, just like the same herbicides today. And is not particularly toxic to humans, the problem in Vietnam was trace amounts of dioxin in manufacturing the 2,4,5-T component.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#427

Post by e3pi »

wtn wrote: post #291
blhack wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course we're "allowed" to own them in the United States... Despite what people on reddit, and other fringe internet forums would have you believe, The United States has some of the strongest personal liberties in the world.

Here are the rules by US state: http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/mcs/maskcodes.html

Do riot police arbitrarily make these rules up on the fly?

13+ years since WTO Battle in Seattle? Melissa Kaplan still cannot find Washington State wearing gas mask code/regulations?

What is it about Evergreen(Evergray?) Washington State?

Last updated January 13, 2013

State Codes Related To Wearing Masks

Compiled by Melissa Kaplan Need to wear an air filtration mask when you go out to avoid the effects of fragrances, chemicals, pollens and more?

You may be breaking the law.

Each state has its own code relating to masks (though some states may have no such code) and/or disguises. In some, you may be okay wearing a filtration or surgical mask; in others, you may be required to carry a note from your physician stating that you need to wear the mask for health reasons.

If you find the code section for your state and send me a copy of the section and language, I will add it to this listing.

.......................

The only thing I could find:

Seattle municipal court judge dismisses WTO gas mask case on February 17, 2000.

On February 17, 2000, a municipal court judge dismisses criminal charges against a man accused of violating the emergency order prohibiting the possession of "devices commonly known as gas masks" during the period of unrest surrounding the World Trade Organization (WTO) meeting which occurred in late November and early December, 1999, in Seattle.

Mayor Paul Schell had issued an emergency order prohibiting the possession of gas masks in Seattle except by military and police on December 1, 1999. Later that day, journalists were allowed to possess gas masks, but the ban did not extend to firefighters.

Justin Reed of Seattle was arrested at City Hall on the day the ban was signed when he attempted to attend a City Council hearing called to discuss and ratify the mayor's order. The judge ruled that prosecutors did not prove that Reed knew of the ban when he was arrested. The charges were dismissed "with prejudice" meaning that Reed could not be charged again with the same crime.

As of February 17, 2000, only 24 persons out of more than 600 arrested during WTO protests were still charged with crimes, including four accused of violating the gas mask ban.

http://www.historylink.org/_content/education/index.cfm?Disp...

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#428

Post by itry »

jakub_g wrote: post #281
itry wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you look it in slow motion, There is slow motion on youtube?

Enable HTML5 trial http://www.youtube.com/html5 and then on some videos (non-VEVO etc.) you can control the speed.

Interesting. I see the speed setting on some videos now. But clicking on them has no effect. For example when I click on 0.25x the video keeps playing at normal speed. Im using Iceweasel on Debian 7.
Post reply on HN