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What is Happening in Istanbul?

defnesumanblogs.com

331–340 of 519 posts

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#331
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that singapore doesn't cane people, or that it doesn't cane people for littering? Maybe you are right about the latter (I can only find evidence that you will be arrested, perhaps not caned, for littering) but caning is most certainly a thing in Singapore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Legal_basis http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html If caning its own citizens i…

> If caning its own citizens is not evidence of a nanny state that treats people like children, I don't know what is. Not that I want to sound like a supporter Singapore's judicial system but I didn't expect to hear this from a citizen of a country that is allowed to kill as a form of punishment. (Making the assumption that you are from the US, apologies if I got that wrong).

No, you got it right (I'm not american, but I live here). And I absolutely agree with you - like caning, capital punishment has no place in an enlightened country, and I sure hope it is eradicated from the US, and throughout the world, soon.

I was merely disagreeing with the parent's assertion that Singapore has some form of enlightened government that doesn't trample on personal freedoms, and treats its citizens with respect.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#332
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This happened in Germany some time ago. I don’t know to which event exactly you’re referring, but I can assure you that > 8h of warning or something similar. this is most certainly false. Could you elaborate a bit?

Of course I took that out of my #$% :-) But there is a documentary about it... fairly recent one, I just can't find it knowing only that it was a park in Germany.

they talk a bit about Stuttgart-21 in Urbanized

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#333
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people decide to just blow themselves up for no reason? Or maybe installing the shah in Iran, giving military aid in abundance to Israel, giving guns to Osama, giving guns to Saddam might, just might, have had something to do with it? God forbid the Iranian people benefit from their own oil fields! That'd fuck over BP!

[deleted]

"people decide to just blow themselves up for _no_ reason" = they have established a coherent subsect of Islam which teaches that Islam requires they forever be waging war against the nonbelievers and which celebrates dying in such a war as the highest honor, giving them a very clear reason that anyone with open eyes is well aware of by now.

"Jihad means war only. Fighting, with the sword." - Abdullah Azzam.

"The Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." - The Muslim Brotherhood creed

"We love death more than you love life." - Nidal Hassan

"We love death. They love life." - Azzam Tamimi

"We are going to win, because they love life and we love death." - Hassan Nasrallah

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"installing the shah in Iran" = the West intervened after Mohammad Mosaddegh launched a coup d'etat against the Shah of Iran, this after Mosaddegh had dissolved parliament and declared himself dictator. Look it up.

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"giving military aid in abundance to Israel" = the US gave anti-tank missiles to Israel in 1973, which ruined the Arab League's plan to finish the job that Hitler started. After the Egypt-Israel peace treaty, the US annually gave billions of dollars to both sides. Aid to Israel is given with the restriction that it must be spent on American weapons, making it both a subsidy for the US arms industry and a means of crippling Israel's arms industry.

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"giving guns to Osama" = The US once was nice to Osama, and this therefore justifies him ordering the 9/11 attacks. The specific choice of which parties to distribute weapons to was mostly made by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

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"giving guns to Saddam" = The US sold weapons to Iraq in the Persian Gulf War, and this therefore justifies the 9/11 attacks by a completely unaffected third party.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#334
Looking at it from a class perspective:

"Erdogan’s vision of Turkey is one full of citizens who piously pray in the country’s ubiquitous mosques and then go shopping at one of its equally ubiquitous malls, which are frantically being built in urban areas.

As long as the imports, credit card, and debt-driven Turkish economic bubble remains intact, the government will continue to pursue these and other neoliberal policies to the great praise of western think-thanks, private equity firms, and politicians who all repeat the fallacy of the ‘Turkish [success] model’.

Notwithstanding these neoliberal economic policies, Erdogan is still extremely popular among Turkey’s poor and working people in both urban and rural areas. Most western observers have missed this crucial fact and are, therefore, quick to enthusiastically compare the Gezi Park protests with the ‘Arab Spring’.

One has only to speak with blue-collar workers in Turkey to understand popular attitudes toward the government. Whenever I am in Istanbul, I engage in political small talk with people from various walks of life, including waiters, construction workers, and young men working on the ferries crossing the Bosporus. I also frequently visit my family members, who are from a poor Anatolian background.

In my conversations with these people, I have heard nothing but firm support for Erdogan. When asked about Turkey’s unemployment rate or the Prime Minister’s nepotism, most of these individuals do not hesitate to say, “I know that Erdogan is also ‘siphoning the cash’ (hortumluyorlar). But good for him (helal olsun). At least he is leaving us some crumbs. The previous bastards never gave us everything.” Memories of many decades of economic and political oppression by secular elites are still fresh for many Turks. Because of the AKP, these people now have access to things like privatized health care, credit card use, and unprecedented infrastructure development."

http://muftah.org/why-the-gezi-park-protests-do-not-herald-a...

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#335
post #330

I've been following the events since the beginning (in fact I was there at the solitary meeting in Chicago yesterday: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-local-... ), so let me summarize what's been going on. However, if you have time to read just a single post, read this ( http://technosociology.org/?p=1255 ) spot on analysis instead of my comment. First, it's not an Istanbul thing anymore, many Tu…

I read, listened hundreds of things about events, but honestly, all I see is vague hand wavy things about the real cause. "Lack of adequate response.. No official plans to celebrate May 19.. No alcohol sale after 10pm.." Seriously? I maen really?, To me this this whole mess seems to be reduced to "Hey police pepper sprayed my friend yesterday, and btw I also hate this government and PM. I am going in." reaction.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#336
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You actually raise an interesting parallel: poor communities and planning organizations had railed against the bulldozers of Robert Moses for decades, but in the media he could do no wrong. That was before he tried to build in Central Park. When his policies finally threatened a beloved playground to build private parking, a group well-to-do mothers on the Upper West Side stood up and it triggered the beginning of hi…

while trying to build a parking lot in central park is part of moses' downfall, the picture painted here is not really accurate to my knowledge. for one, a lot of stuff was built in central park during moses' reign as parks commissioner, particularly early on: something like 20 playgrounds, including the demolition of the casino restaurant for rumsey playground; a ton of ball fields; tavern on the green; major change…

Yes, Moses built many things in the park. But more to the point, the many famous and well-heeled mothers and residents of west 67th street involved in the protest listed at the beginning of chapter 42 of "The Power Broker" makes your comment particularly odd.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#337
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a great place to live as long as you do not try to exercise a political freedom I'm not arguing with that. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think it has been conclusively proved that being able to exercise that freedom leads to a better society, and it is that end we should be thinking about, not the means. > decide that you'd rather prize political freedom over wealth Long term, if political freedom doesn't…

It depends whether you think it is ok for the government: - to ban chewing gum - to publicly cane people (limited to "6 strokes" for women, how nice) - to enforce capital punishment (i.e. killing people for allegedly killing people) - to limit your rights to criticize your government - etc ...provided that it guarantees you good money. There is nothing inherently wrong with your point of view, and I have many friends…

I don't know, I wonder if something like public caning might be a more humane and more effective option than sentencing people to anal rape. (Which is de facto what often happens in the US).

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#338
post #285

This was a posted by a friend on Facebook: Since I see that some friends have got excited about the recent events in Turkey I decided to write something about it and provide some context. I think it is good to know a bit of history of Turkey before AKP to understand what is going on there. It has been more than 10 years that AKP is in power so people might not know or may have forgotten the situation before AKP. Turk…

Excuse my ignorance in the following, I am trying to understand the situation based on very little prior knowledge: What you say makes a lot of sense, but can you comment on how this generally "good" government seems to be using excessive force, and the claimed media blackout on the protests? I understand that the government may be more respectful of democracy than their opponents, but is it possible that the protest…

Don't believe him. It is basically full of lies, albeit written with a very good English.

AKP basically used EU as a cover to weaken other significant forces like legal bodies, media, military. Now, they are in phase 2, using their power to crush all others who do not live like them. For example, until late yesterday, there were no major TV channels airing the news. We communicated via Twitter, and the only live broadcasting TV was from Norway!

With the weaking of all opposing forces, there is no significant power left against them, or at least, that was what they thought.

The recent ban on alcoholic drugs, Erdogan's constant mention of the Ottomans as his ancestors, his constant stress during his speeches that he dreams of a religious and obedient youth is what we are opposing.

The notion of democracy Erdogan has is very primitive. In his speeches, basically he sees the voting which takes place every 4 years as the only democratic right a person can have.

It is true that in the past, the Turkish state oppressed some religious groups or major minorities like the Kurdish; but the attitude this government and its proponents have is basically contained with revenge. Just to give a final example, the Major of Ankara, a significant figure from AKP, just yesterday tweeted the following:

"You should thank God that we believe in democracy, otherwise we would drown you in a spoonful of water."

The propaganda this government makes is, quite literally reminiscent of 1984. How they re-define words, how they contradict with themselves at each sentence is stunning. They usually say they are the forerunners of "advanced democracy", when they cannot envision a life form other than their own. Of course, every such speech of them ends with the following lie: we respect everyone's lives, everyone can live as they please. It is like the old Ford saying, everyone can lead the life they like in Turkey, as long as it is approved by AKP.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#339
post #285

This was a posted by a friend on Facebook: Since I see that some friends have got excited about the recent events in Turkey I decided to write something about it and provide some context. I think it is good to know a bit of history of Turkey before AKP to understand what is going on there. It has been more than 10 years that AKP is in power so people might not know or may have forgotten the situation before AKP. Turk…

Don't believe him. It is basically full of lies, albeit written with a very good English.

AKP basically used EU as a cover to weaken other significant forces like legal bodies, media, military. Now, they are in phase 2, using their power to crush all others who do not live like them. For example, until late yesterday, there were no major TV channels airing the news. We communicated via Twitter, and the only live broadcasting TV was from Norway!

With the weaking of all opposing forces, there is no significant power left against them, or at least, that was what they thought.

The recent ban on alcoholic drugs, Erdogan's constant mention of the Ottomans as his ancestors, his constant stress during his speeches that he dreams of a religious and obedient youth is what we are opposing.

The notion of democracy Erdogan has is very primitive. In his speeches, basically he sees the voting which takes place every 4 years as the only democratic right a person can have.

It is true that in the past, the Turkish state oppressed some religious groups or major minorities like the Kurdish; but the attitude this government and its proponents have is basically contained with revenge. Just to give a final example, the Major of Ankara, a significant figure from AKP, just yesterday tweeted the following:

"You should thank God that we believe in democracy, otherwise we would drown you in a spoonful of water."

The propaganda this government makes is, quite literally reminiscent of 1984. How they re-define words, how they contradict with themselves at each sentence is stunning. They usually say they are the forerunners of "advanced democracy", when they cannot envision a life form other than their own. Of course, every such speech of them ends with the following lie: we respect everyone's lives, everyone can live as they please. It is like the old Ford saying, everyone can lead the life they like in Turkey, as long as it is approved by AKP.

Re: What is Happening in Istanbul?

#340
post #306
post #285

This was a posted by a friend on Facebook: Since I see that some friends have got excited about the recent events in Turkey I decided to write something about it and provide some context. I think it is good to know a bit of history of Turkey before AKP to understand what is going on there. It has been more than 10 years that AKP is in power so people might not know or may have forgotten the situation before AKP. Turk…

Where does the 70% came from? Do you have a source for this? It would be better to check how many "scarf-wearers" are going to universities, this percentage would be meaningful. My opinion is that universities should be religion-free as science doesn't play well with religion. I think that the problem might be that the (nonsecular) east wants to rule the (secular) west and viceversa.

Universities should be "religion-free" and students should have the freedom to express themselves. We talk about freedom but have double standards
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