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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#291

Post by AnthonBerg »

TheCowboy wrote: post #266
AnthonBerg wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah! Oops! I meant break things FROM debian, as in got code from Debian and broke it in Ubuntu, or didn't pull fixes from Debian into Ubuntu for years. My apologies! I'm not a native English speaker :( and sometimes I think I am smarter than I am :)

What did they break?

mdadm and associated init scripts was the dealbreaker for me

they broke the initscripts so array assembly didn't work correctly - not even the same as the installed man page stated

they had mdadm version 2.x (has significant flaws) for YEARS after mdadm 3.x was accepted into debian - YEARS - even after multiple users making clear what the problem was in bug reports

a user even made a patch and a ppa which fixed things but still they didn't pick up on that for a year + as i recall

and they broke/removed debian's PERFECT support for installation onto md raid

other stuff i've honestly forgotten but i swear there was more

oh! oh! wait, also the STOPPING THE BOOT PROCESS TO WAIT FOR YOU TO PRESS A KEY if a drive needed an fsck!!!!! what the f....

(don't understand why you were downvoted, good question)

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#292

Post by Cthulhu_ »

thechut wrote: post #96
jjcm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standards are great and all, but holding on to those standards is what's keeping back the UX of linux. Gnome3 is familiar, but very dated. X is supported by all, but it's a tangled mess that everyone hates. Yes Ubuntu is straying from the pack, but I'd rather have them stray and the rest follow when they find something good then have the entire linux community sit in the same place they have been for years. Regardles…

Exactly this. My chosen distro is Linux Mint. Based on Ubuntu but going its own direction.

> Based on Ubuntu but going its own direction.

Like how Ubuntu is/was based off Debian but going its own direction? ;)

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#293

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #291
TheCowboy wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did they break?

mdadm and associated init scripts was the dealbreaker for me they broke the initscripts so array assembly didn't work correctly - not even the same as the installed man page stated they had mdadm version 2.x (has significant flaws) for YEARS after mdadm 3.x was accepted into debian - YEARS - even after multiple users making clear what the problem was in bug reports a user even made a patch and a ppa which fixed thing…

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#294

Post by iso-8859-1 »

dthunt wrote: post #248
benjiweber wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be plenty of issues with X, but it runs fine on the n900 and n9. It's not too slow to run on current phones.

Also, it says something when #3 on your big list of complaints about X is that switching graphics modes when starting X is a major problem that needs to be fixed.

It is not only an X issue, it is a system level issue. But I guess it is mostly irrelevant now, since we have KMS.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#295

Post by grimborg »

popee wrote: post #7

Or just install mint ;-)

I tried Mint with Cinnamon a few months ago. I normally use Gnome classic with XMonad as the window manager. Some things that are in Gnome were missing in Cinnamon (bluetooth settings was an example IIRC, but I don't remember the details), and I ended up with a mess of Gnome and Cinnamon, having some apps installed twice (the Cinnamon version and the Gnome version). Other things required some manual work, like integrating Dropbox with Nemo. I ended up going back to Ubuntu.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#296

Post by iso-8859-1 »

raverbashing wrote: post #157
zanny wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bugs can be fixed. Pulse is newer than Alsa and more complex, you should expect bugs. If you don't have a problem with the implementation details of PA (software mixing, optional software equalizing, networked audio, stateful audio adaption to devices) then just report the bugs and make it better. Don't whine and try to fragment the Linux space any worse than it already is, especially with Mir's announcement.

Yes, I should expect bugs soon after release But PA is 8 years now. I don't remember any software being so problematic as PA in the Linux world. Some have more problems, yes, but they usually have a limited deployment.

Flash Player? You didn't have problems with that?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#297

Post by iso-8859-1 »

vsync wrote: post #238
iso-8859-1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not this again... You could have complained about this years ago, but it makes no sense today. PulseAudio got fixed. > user experience you can set up PulseAudio for LAN audio streaming with padevchooser (GUI). Could you do this with ESD? Arts? Tell me about this audio streaming solution with super UX for Linux that you know...

> you can set up PulseAudio for LAN audio streaming with padevchooser (GUI). Could you do this with ESD? Considering that was pretty much the point of it, of course.

The point of ESD? It wasn't nearly as user friendly if I remember correctly. But I was a KDE user.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#298

Post by reidrac »

tedks wrote: post #250
snogglethorpe wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let them innovate If Canonical were good at it, everybody would be saying "yeah, go for it!" But they're not. Every time they strike out on their own, they seem to end up producing overly complex, badly performing, messes, with tons of issues, that everybody hates. bzr, unity, ... The only reason people use any of their stuff is because ubuntu pushes it on their users, and people with little experience end up using…

Can you elaborate on what you dislike about bazaar and Unity? Or how Canonical is able to "force" a vcs on its userbase? I've used Unity since it was released, never had any issues, and generally think it's the best GNU/Linux window shell around. Bazaar is also ridiculously simple, and I've started using it as a front-end to every other vcs. The support for git is a little rough, but I can do in one command what git…

Launchpad supports Bazaar only. That's one of the "top ten reasons" to switch to Bazaar according to the docs [1].

That said, I don't really think Canonical is "forcing" anyone besides playing the "defaults" card in the distribution they control, and even then you can simply not use the stuff is installed by default (although I think that making the desktop dependent of some applications that I may not want to use is a little bit against the bazaar philosophy of Linux distributions).

[1] http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/migration/en/why-switch-to-b...

EDIT: formatting

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#299

Post by raverbashing »

iso-8859-1 wrote: post #296
raverbashing wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I should expect bugs soon after release But PA is 8 years now. I don't remember any software being so problematic as PA in the Linux world. Some have more problems, yes, but they usually have a limited deployment.

Flash Player? You didn't have problems with that?

Of course I did. Still less frequently than PA

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#300

Post by benev »

acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

Would you care to elaborate on why you dislike launchpad? I haven't used it as a developer, but as a user I've found it really useful, particularly the way it integrates with apt-get via PPAs.
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