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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

wiki.ubuntu.com

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#191

Post by benjiweber »

metachris wrote: post #97
crististm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is wrong with X, anyway?

Besides of being too slow to run on current phones, and not natively supporting 3D acceleration, these are the reasons mentioned in the article: "With respect to shell development (Unity), three major shortcomings of the X stack prevent us from delivering the user experience (f’n’f) we have in mind: * X shares a lot of system state across process boundaries. This is obviously not a problem in itself but a system-leve…

There may be plenty of issues with X, but it runs fine on the n900 and n9. It's not too slow to run on current phones.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#192

Post by keithpeter »

zamnedix wrote: post #36
sneak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Linux idiots weren't senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo, it wouldn't have taken 20 years (or Canonical) to replace the clusterfuck that is X.

I use Linux and I don't even use a graphical environment most of the time because all it does is slow me down. (When I do use one, it's Ratpoison.) The most effective Linux developers I know work similarly. I believe this is a large cause of us being "senselessly married to terrible in-group traditions and the status quo". I don't know if you're calling all Linux users idiots or what, but I consider Linux idiots as t…

Hang on, what have we got here?

TD;LR Linux is not one thing. Various projects are not mutually exclusive

We have GNU/Linux with a huge array of applications all licensed in such a way as to allow forking and customisation.

We have different groups of users of desktop/laptops; sysadmins; developers; scientific users; people who use administered desktops at work (e.g. French police &c)

We have a smallish and very pushy company in the UK (Canonical) who want to build on GNU/Linux to produce an operating system (Ubuntu) that will work on TVs, phones, tablets, fridges &c. Their target audience won't be developing alternatives to X, and probably won't be writing bash scripts or anything. (That isn't to say that some their users won't be doing those things).

We have a much larger company in the US (Redhat) who provide a stable conservative desktop as a compliment to their commercially supported server OS (RHEL). They part fund a desktop system that has changed radically recently (Gnome).

There is a German based company that make an enterprise desktop OS and server OS and who contribute to the development of a different desktop environment (KDE)

We have a not-for-profit foundation type entity who push out a version of GNU/Linux that can run on a huge range of architectures (Debian)

There is this thing called 'upstream'. Small projects push out all kinds of applications including alternative desktop environments.

So Canonical does its thing, some of the stuff they do may get back into the mainstream GNU/Linux, some may not. Some hardware manufacturer may or may not take up the system. I may be able to dock my phone to a keyboard/mouse/monitor and write documents in LibreOffice and edit podcasts/photos in a couple of years or 5. (bring that on).

The others carry on as they do now. You may have to choose the graphics card more carefully in future but I hope not. I suspect workstation class computers with separate monitor/bases will get more expensive and specialised anyway, and I imagine someone will do a 'high end workstation-OS' just for them.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#194

Post by shurcooL »

acabal wrote: post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

As long as what Ubuntu is creating is open source and easily adopted by others (if it's good), what's the problem?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#196

Post by oneweekwonder »

runeks wrote: post #173
oneweekwonder wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 ) I was also under that impression, but coming to think about it who created that expectation, the community or Canonical? I don't know. 2) Calling unity a fiasco, is like calling it a failure. Which I believe is simply not true. Yes some people didn't like it and moved on or made their opinions heard on forums etc. But Canonical has a plan with Unity, and at the end of the day it gives a better user experience to…

> 1 ) I was also under that impression, but coming to think about it who created that expectation, the community or Canonical? I don't know. Mark Shuttleworth created that expectation, when he made a blog post saying Unity would be switching to Wayland: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551

Thanks for the link!

I did a quick google for "ubuntu having problems with wayland" and some interesting links got returned regarding developers struggling to get wayland working, so it didn't get dropped suddenly.

It seems that the mir spec is a public statement that after 2 years they are giving up for a alternative, with reasons and a alternative.

With some individuals up in arms with the discusion, but how should Ubuntu have handles it differently, while keeping to a deadline.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#197

Post by HerraBRE »

hmo09 wrote: post #44
kunai wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

Apple already have more developers contributing to useful upstream code than Canonical (Webkit, cups, LLVM).

Placating the tech crowd by giving away fragments of low level code is really just marketing and a way to retain talent that would otherwise refuse to work for them. It's not as if their users can actually use any of that stuff to change how their macs work (without switching to a different OS or browser).

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#198

Post by scolex »

in the past when ubuntu was still "linux for human beings" they did great job polishing the linux and providing good linux experience. They were very good improvers.

but then they decided to became inventors. But they don't have strong engineering background and their products were trash.

upstart never provided advanced parallelism and was surpassed by systemd

Top menu and indicators rely on d-bus -- really stupid idea and misuse of technology

they abandon mutter+clutter for closed gl-canvas rendering library + compiz to be used in unity. Now is mutter+clutter far more advanced.

Now they want to change wayland for mir? are they serious? They are not good at inventing things. They will just make linux fragmentation much worst. It's really problematic to make good drivers and gpu companies can't spend money and people on different linux platforms.

ubuntu became from "linux for human beings" to "crappy mac-os like for poor"

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#200

Post by AnthonBerg »

hollerith wrote: post #116
AnthonBerg wrote: post #40

Given my bad experience during the past years of Ubuntu breaking things in Debian and inventing poor software by themselves, my estimation is that they're not smart enough to pull this off.

am curious how Ubuntu broke things in Debian. were Debian maintainers too ready to accept changes from Ubuntu?

Ah! Oops! I meant break things FROM debian, as in got code from Debian and broke it in Ubuntu, or didn't pull fixes from Debian into Ubuntu for years.

My apologies! I'm not a native English speaker :( and sometimes I think I am smarter than I am :)

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