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Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

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Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#231
post #127
post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

In terms of user interface have those standards delivered? I remember fonts being really screwed up for a long time. Longer that it should have been. Just getting anti-aliased fonts was major deal. Then graphics drivers are a mess. I blame manufacturers of devices here. But still treating it as a black box I just see that is inferior. I know Linus flipped of NVidia but at the same time is a chicken and egg problem. W…

> Let them innovate

If Canonical were good at it, everybody would be saying "yeah, go for it!"

But they're not.

Every time they strike out on their own, they seem to end up producing overly complex, badly performing, messes, with tons of issues, that everybody hates. bzr, unity, ...

The only reason people use any of their stuff is because ubuntu pushes it on their users, and people with little experience end up using it by default. Sound familiar...?

[Worse, with Mir, they seem to going for the lockin effect: "mir will integrate especially well with unity"... >That perception, that Canonical is not competing on fair terms—almost anything they come up with, no matter how awful, will come with a built-in user base—is one of the big reasons they get so much flack for this sort of thing. If it were just some guy in his garage hacking on his new display server after lunch every day (like, you know, Wayland...), and gaining users the hard way, by being better, then nobody would blink an eye.

For that reason, I think people expect more maturity from an influential company like Canonical. They expect them to play nicely and work with others (e.g., if they think they've identified issues with wayland, work to fix wayland; or cooperate in designing a next-generation replacement) instead of striking out boldly on their own every 15 minutes.

Again, if they had proven really good at it, they'd get a pass to some degree—but they haven't. Instead, by making technical merit less of a factor in determining what becomes widely used, they're effectively reducing the overall quality of FOSS. Can you blame people for being annoyed?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#233
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought everyone was hating on Canonical for ditching X because rather than support the fledgling standard replacement for X, Wayland, they once again (just like with systemd vs upstart, compiz vs mutter/kdm) go off and do their own thing. And if it turns out like either of those, they end up with an inferior barely maintained product that gets pushed to the sidelines once they show it off on a showroom floor.

Skimming the article, Canonical has some legitimate criticisms of Wayland, and are working on something that doesn't have those problems. Yay, this would be good! Except that it's by Canonical, and as you said, "Canonical never delivers". (That wasn't a quote from you, it was an iteration of "OP (never) delivers")

What I said was that when Canonical does deliver, they let the delivery wither and die without support because they are spread like a teaspoon of mayo thin on their footlong distro sandwich. See: Upstart, Compiz, Software Center.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#234
post #77

I don't understand all the negative reactions. Canonical is recognizing various problems in making GNU/Linux mainstream. They are then innovating at a deeper level (fixing root causes rather than duct-taping) to ultimately attempt to really attract the layman to a mobile or desktop GNU/Linux distro. Devs don't need to target Mir if they don't want to, Linux users can switch to another Debian if they don't like it, an…

The Wayland people really sound like they know what they are talking about, based on decades of experience. See, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 Are these people designing a better answer to Wayland because it's really better, or because it always looks easy when you don't intimately understand the problem space? I honestly don't know, but it's a question I'd like answered before I get excit…

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#235
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't Linux idiots (whatever that means) or their cautionary tendencies, it's Canonical.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

I'm going to guess you haven't used pulseaudio in the last 3-4 years?

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#236
post #39
post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings Exactly. Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason. Mir, Unity, etc. all don't seem to play too well with other distros and are very tightly integrated with Ubuntu; if this continues Ubuntu might turn into a slightl…

> Standards exist in the GNU/Linux world for reason.

That reason being that they grew out organically. And the landscape isn't even unified as it is! Mist distros come with Gnome, but you can run KDE if you are a bit more leet, or if you want something more lightweight you have xfce. Unless...

I'm happy Ubuntu is showing some vision for what their OS can become and work towards that goal.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#237
post #33

Maybe this is a good idea, I don't know about X/Wayland enough to say. But it worries me that Ubuntu is increasingly striking out on its own. What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings. It's also less knowledge to have to keep in your head for system administration st…

> What I like about the GNU/Linux ecosystem is that a lot of distros share a lot of common underpinnings, and everyone benefits from a large community fixing bugs and improving those underpinnings.

Mir is FOSS too.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes The linux idiots have one glaring example: PulseAudio Throw away user experience, system stability, judicious use of CPU for what? It certainly improves certain details of the user experience, when it works correctly , also usually consuming more CPU than flash player

Not this again... You could have complained about this years ago, but it makes no sense today. PulseAudio got fixed. > user experience you can set up PulseAudio for LAN audio streaming with padevchooser (GUI). Could you do this with ESD? Arts? Tell me about this audio streaming solution with super UX for Linux that you know...

> you can set up PulseAudio for LAN audio streaming with padevchooser (GUI). Could you do this with ESD?

Considering that was pretty much the point of it, of course.

Re: Ubuntu will switch from X window server to Mir

#240
post #99
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unity fiasco": any data on the net decrease of ubuntu users caused by unity?

I personally dropped Ubuntu for Linux Mint. I've heard a lot of people say they hate Unity. It's not hard data, but it's anecdotal evidence that there's a substantial set of people that really hate it.

I like cinnamon, but you can run cinnamon on Ubuntu and don't need Mint.

What are the pros of sticking with Linux Mint? Are they performance based?

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