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Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

ciphercue.com

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Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#371
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Cloud and AWS are complex because they're meant for hosting complex apps and infrastructure, they're not really worth it for simple static websites.

I'd argue it's even more worth it for static sites, where CDNs and buckets will vastly out-perform hosting a static site on an instance yourself because of replication, caching, and geographic routing

But they don't, because your bucket is still in a location, and goes through more complexity layers.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#372
post #156

It's seriously good value for small websites. Basically, there is no cost aside from the domain. And for registering and managing domains, they are pretty much the most affordable option as well. And they have a few other things that aren't half bad to use with pretty generous freemium layers. We used Google's CDN for the last six years or so but it's pretty annoying to deal with and you have to pay for a load balanc…

I also believed that, but at least for India, this doesn't work in practice. Unless you atleast do the 25$ pro plan, cloudflare routes even india-to-india, hell, even mumbai-to-mumbai and aws_mumbai-to-cloudflare_mumbai traffic via Marsaille!! Not even Singapore. The unstated reason is that indian transit is expensive, though I fail to believe its cheaper to go from mumbai to marsaille and back to mumbai. I am guessi…

> The unstated reason is that indian transit is expensive, though I fail to believe its cheaper to go from mumbai to marsaille and back to mumbai.

Your Indian ISP is paying a French ISP for both directions of that traffic, which makes it cheap at the French end. Were it India-to-India, Cloudflare would have to pay your ISP.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#373
post #348
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also believed that, but at least for India, this doesn't work in practice. Unless you atleast do the 25$ pro plan, cloudflare routes even india-to-india, hell, even mumbai-to-mumbai and aws_mumbai-to-cloudflare_mumbai traffic via Marsaille!! Not even Singapore. The unstated reason is that indian transit is expensive, though I fail to believe its cheaper to go from mumbai to marsaille and back to mumbai. I am guessi…

> The unstated reason is that indian transit is expensive, though I fail to believe its cheaper to go from mumbai to marsaille and back to mumbai. IMHO, it's not that hard to believe. a) Every hosting provider I've looked at prices for charges significantly more for bandwidth from their Indian locations. b) In the US, transit providers basically never charged different rates for different destinations [1]. In Europe,…

It's basically that payment flows towards the core of the network, which is Europe and America. If you're the first Indian ISP, you have to pay a European ISP for an upstream connection - they won't pay you. And that persists and becomes "just the way things are done". It can only reverse if there are significant websites in India that Europeans want to access, then the European ISPs will be getting more value than the Indian ones and the Indian ones will be able to demand payment.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#374
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traffic still has to flow from an india provider to the international leg and back via the domestic provider. In anycase, then they should document it clearly that they have unacceptable insertion latency in india and the free plan is entirely unusable for india. Instead of advertising '10 pops in india!!'

> The traffic still has to flow from an india provider to the international leg and back via the domestic provider. Right, but Cloudflare doesn't have to pay for it in that case. If Cloudflare sends you to their Indian POP, then they have to pay their Indian service provider for traffic. If they send you to their France POP, then they have to pay their French ISP for traffic. The Indian provider cannot claim any of C…

You would think Cloudflare would be in a position to do something about it, like they did with several cloud services in their Bandwidth Alliance. It would be a win-win-win for networks to interconnect better in India, it just can't happen stepwise because any individual step is a lose for somebody.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#375

It's seriously good value for small websites. Basically, there is no cost aside from the domain. And for registering and managing domains, they are pretty much the most affordable option as well. And they have a few other things that aren't half bad to use with pretty generous freemium layers. We used Google's CDN for the last six years or so but it's pretty annoying to deal with and you have to pay for a load balanc…

I cannot visit most crimeflare sites because I just get endless captcha loops.

The trick is to use the most normal hardware, software and network connection you can think of. Which I assume you aren't doing for ideological reasons, which is fair.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not living in Europe, right? Because while I agree that China is a problem, the USA is a much, much bigger problem for Europeans than China is right now. It's mostly the USA that wants to depict China as the main problem when in reality the USA behaves in a hugely aggressive colonial manner. Trump just makes this more obvious, but that has been the case way before Trump already.

Please speak for yourself. Not everyone in Europe thinks US is bigger problem than China. For many China is far bigger geopolitical threat since they openly support Russia in its current war.

The US also openly supports Russia in its current war, what's the difference?

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing it in a way that won't invite retaliation from the US Gov (which seems more and more like the PR arm of US big tech) is even trickier. I'm thinking the opposite might be the way to go here. We already know that "retaliation" comes from the US government regardless if you did something or not, so most of us (Europeans) have stopped pretending there is a way of preventing it. Even more, if we piss off Trump eno…

While I theoretically agree, the issue is that Trump will connect economical issues to blowing up NATO Article 5, leaving NATO completely, or retracting intelligence or Starlink for Ukraine. So for the most part, the EU has to work slowly and under the radar. That said, my worry is that we'll be back to business as usual if the midterms look favorable. Even the urgency present during January's Greenland threats was g…

Case in point: Trump just banned imports from Canada because they didn't cave to his extortion.

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#378

Since it appears to have gotten hugged to death - https://web.archive.org/web/20260908084626/https://ciphercue... Not really unexpected, US domination of "tech" is near total, even if the sustained political will exists (and I'm not sure it will for long enough) unwinding that is the expensive work of years/decades not months. Doing it in a way that won't invite retaliation from the US Gov (which seems more and more…

> Doing it in a way that won't invite retaliation from the US Gov (which seems more and more like the PR arm of US big tech) is even trickier. It's not the so-called retaliation of the US government that leads to European inefficiencies like paying notaries thousands of euros to read out a contract to you (several discussions going around about this in Germany recently). This is ultimately just a boogeyman. European…

That notary thing is very stupid but just one thing - let's not pretend the US doesn't have stupidity on that level too. DMV lines, anyone? One voting booth for an entire city because it's majority black?

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you get 3gbit traffic on your 1gbit link, you can't do anything yourself - the only thing that can save you is a bigger pipe. Realistically, out of the DDoS we typically see, how many are in fact "they had bigger pipes than you"? I've come across that once in my ~3 decade career maintaining infrastructure for websites, some quite popular. Most of the time the attacks are relatively low-effort and easy to stave…

Wouldn't most udp reflection attacks be bigger than your pipe?

Is that still a thing? What are they reflecting from? Where are they getting unfiltered uplinks?

Re: Among European Companies That Use a CDN, Nearly 9 in 10 Use Cloudflare

#380
post #252
post #184

What are some EU based alternatives? Edit: I found https://european-alternatives.eu/alternative-to/cloudflare , which lists among others: https://bunny.net/ , https://www.keycdn.com/ , https://blazingcdn.com/ , https://www.myrasecurity.com/en/product-content-delivery-net... , https://www.leaseweb.com/cdn . If anyone has any personal experiences with any of these please share.

None of them have the unmetered anti-DDoS and global CDN/caching combination like Cloudflare. Which is weird. CDN requires massive distributed footprint, which inherently provides the enormous network capacity needed to absorb DDoS attacks. So why aren't they offering the same thing as Cloudflare? European CDNs should form partnerships with both European IXPs and Tier-1/Tier-2 ISPs (like Orange, Deutsche Telekom, etc…

LOL Deutsche Telekom... Their peering policy is "don't".
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