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Being ambitious and being a dad

nicholascharriere.com

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Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#581

Post by thunspa »

cableshaft wrote: post #557
ron_woods wrote: post #503

Sorry if this offends anyone but why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? Want to be great at something neglect your children to do so. Want to be a great parent, fine you have a mediocre career. From the article you are ambitious about building things. Well guess what children are, the ultimate piece of clay from which you get a front row seat to mold. If…

> why must we choose between having a great career and being a great parent. Why is it a zero-sum game? I had basically this exact conversation with a close family member, who sees having children as being forced to give up on her dreams of being a writer forever, which I just don't get (she's already written and released 4 novels which have made some decent money, just not enough to do it fulltime, and still has a d…

A bit off topic, but would you share a few of your favorite board games? Thank you!

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#582

Post by Aeolun »

jdkoeck wrote: post #193
Aeolun wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gamble is basically only a gamble if you wait longer. The graph for pre-35 parents is practically nonexistent. I could live with the 2% chance at 42, but not with the 15% at 45. Where the chance is of random abnormalities. Who knows what exciting variant you get.

15% at 45? You better have a source for that number.

I’m basing this on the vibe from a chart someone showed me when I was in the hospital 8 years ago after my son was born. The point is the chances increase exponentially. Found the list now:

Age 20: About 1 in 500 (0.2%) Age 30: About 1 in 270 (0.37%) Age 35: About 1 in 80 (1.25%) Age 40: About 1 in 60 (1.66%) Age 45: About 1 in 20 (5.0%)

Which actually kinda refutes me because 1 in 500 is still a lot.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#583

Post by sokoloff »

glitchc wrote: post #565
amouat wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, except that you've taken ambitious to mean climbing the corporate ladder, which is a relatively narrow reading. It can also mean wanting a achieve a large dream or goal e.g. writing a book.

I think the OP's logic applies. Every author is hoping their book is a best-seller and/or wins awards i.e. the approval of others.

I know a couple of O’Reilly authors. I don’t think any of them expected a best-seller or awards from their work, just “I get a high-four or barely-five figure payment for a competent treatment of a technical topic.”

Maybe you could argue that’s a lightweight version of “approval of others”

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#584

Post by wat10000 »

criddell wrote: post #435
enjrolas wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent, I get to give you The Most Infuriating Answer: once you have kids, you'll understand.

I'd modify that to once you have kids, you might understand . It's for sure not a given and there are a lot of really terrible people out there who probably shouldn't have the kids they do.

I'd like to object to this hopefully unintentional suggestion that failing to understand it means you're a terrible person.

I don't think I'm a terrible person. My kids are healthy, mostly happy, seem to be well adjusted. I support their physical needs, do my best to support their emotional needs. I read to them, changed their diapers, taught them how to ride a bicycle, help them with their homework, kiss them goodnight. But I still don't understand. I know most parents have this whatever it is, but I'm still wondering.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#585

Post by pac0 »

superxpro12 wrote: post #553
psim1 wrote: post #484

I felt successful before I had kids. Satisfying, upward-moving career; happy marriage; lots of travel; volunteering in multiple organizations. I liked all these things, succeeded in them, people liked me, etc. As a dad, I feel like a total loser. All of the aforementioned are diminished or put entirely on hold (travel, most volunteering). I'm medicore at everything, except parenting, in which I am successful at keepi…

kids are rough before.... 3y. especially in the "wriggling sacks of flesh" stage. you look at this larva and youre like 'wtf did i get myself into?' Once they start doing extracurriculars, and learning skills, and developing talents, then something starts to click. for me at least. things got REALLY fun when they started to also enjoy things i liked.

Yeah... I'm in the 3-year-old stage and oh boy... it can be really tough. But lately I bought some kids' board games (HABA) and we can enjoy them together — not always, and it's not the same as playing with peers, but I can see it being like that in the future. And the experience of teaching, for me, not being a teacher, is really educational and transformative.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#586

Post by tyre »

amouat wrote: post #421
spicyusername wrote: post #398

The older I get the more I realize ambition and "being ambitious" is a completely misplaced way to orient your life. The chance of validation from others is not a good reason for making one choice or another and a life made of choices of that kind will eventually leave you spiritually bankrupt. Make decisions based on what you're passionate about, based on what will bring and keep meaningful relationships into your l…

I don't disagree, except that you've taken ambitious to mean climbing the corporate ladder, which is a relatively narrow reading. It can also mean wanting a achieve a large dream or goal e.g. writing a book.

I can +1 who you're replying to in the context of founders and achieving a large dream (building a massive company.)

I was in the Summer 2016 batch. Ten years out feels like long enough for some reflections on lives well-lived. There were people in my batch who were ambitious, not in climbing someone else's corporate ladder but in building their own massive/successful/wealthy company.

For those who separated it from what they were passionate about—and here I mean the impact, not "passionate about building a big business”—there have been more than a few crash outs. Existential crises, Extremely Online Syndrome, pulled into a world where what VCs say or competition with press releases on Tech Crunch define their self-worth.

These people are generally not happy. Some are! But many are not.

The founders who worked on things that they care about—with technology or company-building as a _means_ to achieving some greater end—are doing much better. They might or might not still be at their start-ups. Many have gone on to work at other impactful companies or organizations. They seem much more content with life and their contributions to the world.

That's the type of ambition that is healthy _and_ meaningful _and_ lasting. It's not that these people aren't ambitious—they very much are! But it's not "big company good". It's "big positive impact good."

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#587

Post by Der_Einzige »

sneak wrote: post #454
jraby3 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about this and while I agree with you completely, I think the reason why is not just society at large. Externally what most people see is the time suck, money suck, and frustration with teaching behavior, fixing bad behavior etc. What's so easy to miss is the immense feeling of love, of being needed, of being loved, that words can't describe. I frequently tell people I feel like the grinch after he disco…

You don’t need children to have these sorts of feelings, unless you can only get them from some small people who don’t have any choice but to love you.

[flagged]

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#588

Post by Der_Einzige »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #342
afc wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective. Your first paragraph also describes my experience, perfectly. However, even though I also think nothing comes even close to parenthood for me, my perspective is that society strongly encourages —I'd even say strongly pressures— people to have kids, to feel that if you don't, it's almost like something is wrong with you. Maybe we're just different generations? :-)

I think it's social pressure in some cultures, but even in those (sub)cultures which don't have the explicit pressure to have kids, people have a drive to procreate. I cannot tell you how many couples I know who decided they would not have kids, or would only have one, and at a certain point one partner (usually a woman in their late 30s or early 40s if I am being honest) decided this was the most important thing and…

Sadly for many of these women the clock hit too late. They call it "geriatric pregnancy" if it's after 35 for a reason.

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#589

Post by OvervCW »

mysterydip wrote: post #519
OvervCW wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely a lot of this can be experienced by associating with parents and their children rather than having them yourself, right? This may sound somewhat reductive, and please correct me if that is the case, but I find that I can be around and play with my nephew and experience all of this wonder and how he progresses through life, while not being around for the sleepless nights and tantrums that I feel are the "work"…

In part, for sure. I was an uncle for a long time, which formed part of my hesitation. But there’s a different level of investment and connection if you are responsible for something 24/7. Like visiting someone’s house and seeing their dog do a trick, vs having your own dog and training it. There’s people who can articulate it better than me, but (not to sound sappy about it) the first time I held my firstborn my wor…

I like your dog trick analogy, that definitely helped me understand it more :)

Re: Being ambitious and being a dad

#590

Post by stackskipton »

thunspa wrote: post #580
faeyanpiraat wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda agree with you but Could you please elaborate on “ having kids does all the good things in life at once” as I dont see how is that so straightforward. I’m actually currently really conflicted on the idea whether I want or dont want kids.

The replies in this thread are already very good. I'm a dad of two, but I won't add anything more than that you will be hard pressed to find a parent who will regret having children. I understand the bias in it, but people can be persuaded into honesty and, under anonymity on this website, are more likely to be honest about such things.

Partner and I are childfree but in talking with other parents about it, I've had 3 admit, if they knew now, they wouldn't have had kids or had less. My father was one of them.
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