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Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

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Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#71

Post by palata »

WhyIsItAlwaysHN wrote: post #59
adrian_b wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restricting the word "insects" to hexapods is a modern convention that does not have any basis in etymology. Aristotle used the word "insects" for all terrestrial arthropods and this was followed for millennia until the last two centuries when someone preferred to use "Insecta" instead of "Hexapoda", without giving any reason for this, and others followed this taxonomy. Even so, the exact extent of the term "insects"…

This is a discussion about animal intelligence. Jumping spiders have a different brain layout than bees, which are formally insects. Other insects are more like the bee than spiders. So in this case, it matters that spiders are not in fact insects in the strict sense.

This is explicitly a thread about arthropods, though.

Quote from above:

> they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#72

Post by nkozyra »

neutronicus wrote: post #68
rob74 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those moths is this guy, who (in flight, not so much in still images) looks and sounds like a miniature hummingbird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummingbird_hawk-moth

Finding hawk moth caterpillars on my tomato plant was one of the bigger wtfs of my adult life

Honestly you're lucky there were any leaves left.

You must have caught it within two or three hours after its arrival.

In the US we have similar hawk moths; the tomato hornworm also looks like a hummingbird when it reaches maturity.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#73

Post by pfdietz »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #66
mallomarmeasle wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandpappy told me that if you want a good crop of pawpaws you have to hang a dead cat in the tree. I think dead cats were in greater supply back in his day. Fascinating flowers for a tree though. Red meat color and odor only a fly could love. For anyone that’s close, go to the upcoming Ohio Pawpaw festival! https://ohiopawpawfest.com/

Yeah I've wondered about just really nasty ass stinky fresh manure around the base of each tree. That would attract flies. Probably a flush of nitrogen at exactly the wrong time tho. Most plants respond to that by pushing excess green growth instead of flowering and fruit set.

Solid cow manure is really low in nitrogen, though, and maybe 90% is organic N which is released slowly.

Maybe you meant fresher manure.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#74

Post by cubefox »

teh_klev wrote: post #43

These are the original articles this re-heat was created from: - https://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/magnolias-be... - https://gardens.si.edu/learn/blog/the-botany-of-magnolias/

The second article goes into more detail:

> To minimize the risk of self-pollination, which can result in inbreeding depression and recessive mutations, the flowers open in the morning and the stigmas are receptive to pollen that is brought to them by foraging beetles throughout the day. When evening comes, the innermost tepals close around the carpel and trap the pollinating beetle. While the tepals are closed, the beetle deposits pollen all over the receptive stigmas. The stigmas then close and the anthers become active, covering the same beetle in fresh pollen so that when the sepals open in the morning, it will fly out and find another flower to pollinate. This precise delay in flower function helps to ensure cross pollination.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#75

Post by cmrdporcupine »

pfdietz wrote: post #73
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I've wondered about just really nasty ass stinky fresh manure around the base of each tree. That would attract flies. Probably a flush of nitrogen at exactly the wrong time tho. Most plants respond to that by pushing excess green growth instead of flowering and fruit set.

Solid cow manure is really low in nitrogen, though, and maybe 90% is organic N which is released slowly. Maybe you meant fresher manure.

Whatever brings the most flies to the yard.

The farm next door occasionally grows cauliflower. Like 15 acres of it. When that happens and they do the harvest in the end of August the whole area stinks like rotting brassicas and there's flies everywhere. If I could just replicate that experience in mid-May...

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#76

Post by empyrrhicist »

nkozyra wrote: post #72
neutronicus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding hawk moth caterpillars on my tomato plant was one of the bigger wtfs of my adult life

Honestly you're lucky there were any leaves left. You must have caught it within two or three hours after its arrival. In the US we have similar hawk moths; the tomato hornworm also looks like a hummingbird when it reaches maturity.

Once I started leaving just the ones with parasitoid wasp eggs on their backs in the garden, I completely stopped having problems with these guys.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#77

Post by stinos »

actionfromafar wrote: post #9
Diogenesian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the whole point of bees as insect pollinators (reflecting that they are recent evolutionary line) is that they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod. They will inspect then successfully pollinate anything floral over a wide geographic range. Most insect pollinators are instinctually tied to certain species/families.

Thanks, I never thought about bees like that. They certainly can use many types of flowers, as evidenced by various sorts of honey. Nitpick: some spiders are pretty darn intelligent and even seem to dream when they sleep, apparently.

> They certainly can use many types of flowers

Note there are various species who're oligolectic meaning they only collect pollen and nectar - and hence pollinate only - a single family or sometimes even single species of plants. Moreover they are usually also better at pollinating than more generalistic species especially honeybees.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#78

Post by cyberjar »

baxtr wrote: post #39
mvidal01 wrote: post #32

Some insects gather nectar from a flower and don't pollinate the flower. This is called nectar robbing. See https://www.backyardecology.net/not-all-flower-visitors-are-...

What’s the best security control against this robbery?!

If it becomes a problem I would imagine that most victim plants will evolve certain defence mechanisms. For example, some insects will simply chew through flowers to reach the nectar stores - so I think in such cases a flower would just evolve a tougher skin, or secrete something that deters insects from doing that.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#79

Post by rob74 »

VMG wrote: post #53
rob74 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those moths is this guy, who (in flight, not so much in still images) looks and sounds like a miniature hummingbird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummingbird_hawk-moth

rare instance where the German name Taubenschwänzchen ('little dove-tail') is nicer than the English name

That reminds me that people who hear the word for butterfly (Schmetterling) in German for the first time usually think it sounds extremely violent. Ok, then again, "butterfly" sounds slightly disgusting if you think about it. But TIL that they actually have a similar root: the "Schmetter-" doesn't come from smashing, but from "Schmetten", a word derived from the Slavic "smetana" (cream). Apparently butterflies got their name from the popular belief that witches could turn into butterflies to steal milk or cream (and probably also other dairy products?).
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