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Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

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31–40 of 105 posts

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#31
post #2

A lot of plants aren’t pollinated by bees. There’s pollinator wasps, flies, moths, butterflies… even birds and bats are pollinators

I have to say that if we're also talking about wild grasses, my wire fox terrier is also a pollinator. He collects an incredible amount of seeds and burrs during his walkies investigations and I have to pick them out of his fur afterwards (risky because he gets annoyed easily).

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#33
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jumping spiders are smarter

Are they? They are smarter than web-spinning spiders but I've never read anything suggesting they are smarter than bees. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn3357

I've watched videos of them stalking prey and they seem extremely intelligent for their size. It's very impressive.

Bees' intelligence relies on them being a hive organism.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#34
post #3

Pretty sure I see many bees on Magnolias.

Right, the whole point of bees as insect pollinators (reflecting that they are recent evolutionary line) is that they are by a healthy margin the most intelligent arthropod. They will inspect then successfully pollinate anything floral over a wide geographic range. Most insect pollinators are instinctually tied to certain species/families.

You mean honeybees? Because there are lots of other (wild) bee species that are very specialized. And they also contradict most of the other things we think we know about bees: they are usually solitary, and they rarely sting (honeybees only do that to protect the hive).

Maybe it's the other way around: humans selected honeybees to "domesticate" because of their versatility (and of course the fact that they produced honey)?

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#36

The earliest angiosperms appeared in the Cretaceous. This is after the appearance of Hymenoptera (Jurassic) and Diptera (Triassic). While a nice story, this needs additional substantiation. An alternative explanation is likelier imo.

The early Hymenoptera were predatory, like wasps still are.

Bees, which feed on pollen and nectar from plant flowers, instead of catching other insects, have evolved much later from wasp-like Hymenoptera, after angiosperms were already widespread.

So the timeline fits into the story.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#38
post #2

A lot of plants aren’t pollinated by bees. There’s pollinator wasps, flies, moths, butterflies… even birds and bats are pollinators

I have to say that if we're also talking about wild grasses, my wire fox terrier is also a pollinator. He collects an incredible amount of seeds and burrs during his walkies investigations and I have to pick them out of his fur afterwards (risky because he gets annoyed easily).

Seeds are not gametes. While your dog may help spread the seeds, they are not assisting in the sexual reproduction itself.

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#39

Some insects gather nectar from a flower and don't pollinate the flower. This is called nectar robbing. See https://www.backyardecology.net/not-all-flower-visitors-are-...

What’s the best security control against this robbery?!

Re: Magnolias are so old that they're pollinated by beetles, not bees (2025)

#40
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jumping spiders are smarter

Spiders are not insects though https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology...

Restricting the word "insects" to hexapods is a modern convention that does not have any basis in etymology.

Aristotle used the word "insects" for all terrestrial arthropods and this was followed for millennia until the last two centuries when someone preferred to use "Insecta" instead of "Hexapoda", without giving any reason for this, and others followed this taxonomy.

Even so, the exact extent of the term "insects" varies between biologists, because some do not include all wingless hexapods under "insects".

In an informal discussion, I do not see any mistake in using the word "insects" with its original meaning from Aristotle, which is also the meaning that can be encountered in a lot of old books. For unambiguous animal classification, the word "hexapods" is preferable.

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