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French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

france24.com

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Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#241

Post by rightbyte »

apelapan wrote: post #231
Ma8ee wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? Capitalism is the current system, and the one that is actively thwarting efforts to mitigate the disaster. I don't see how the existence of other systems that would be equally bad or worse is relevant.

Wealth is a sharper answer than capitalism, even though it is an overlapping one. To manage forrests and and other agriculture in the traditional way, we need extreme amounts of extreme poverty. We need millions and millions of people who are happy to spend 14 hours per day collecting sticks and tending sheep in the woods, in exchange for nothing more than a bowl of porridge. And they need to this every day all their…

I don't think multispecies plantations with thinning (until the trees are big enough) requires serfs eating only porridge.

Like, there are motor saws nowadays.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#242

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tremon wrote: post #240
timpera wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Le Monde: > Some efforts have begun to diversify the Landes forest and to maintain or promote deciduous trees, particularly along the edges of plots. The major difficulty, according to foresters, is that very few species are able to grow in this region, where the sandy soil is very poor and very acidic (it is one of the poorest soils in Europe). Foresters describe the maritime pine as a "miracle species" in this…

Is the solution repeated burning of pine to enrich the soil, making it easier for other tree species to gain a foothold in the area?

Possibly, but the other option is to let it return to barren wasteland. If left alone it'll find itself a new balance, eventually.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#243

Post by netol »

tirant wrote: post #237
reco98gg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

Blaming everything on global warming is extremely dangerous. It fails to address many other reasons why we are experiencing fires and creates an easy to blame enemy and a sensation that there's nothing we can do. We should really go way deeper than just blaming everything on an increase of temperatures, which nevertheless is actually happening. We, locals, have been warning already for decades of the increase of fire…

Hola!

While I think this is mostly correct, I don't think it's OK to downplay climate change as just a "blame target". These current and extreme wildfires result from hotter and drier conditions, too. That is a major reason. And yes, we can do something about it.

Also, I know that controlled burns, grazing and firebreaks are widely used today in Spain, they are not universally forbidden.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#245

Post by Cthulhu_ »

senderista wrote: post #85

I will be surprised if the climate crisis doesn’t eventually escalate to the point where basically everyone agrees that geoengineering of some kind is worth the risk.

I think the more short term achievable one is better forest management; another thread mentions this is a big monoculture of pine trees planted nearly 200 years ago. Diversify the forests, create fire breaks, have a rapid fire response plan ready, improve water management, etc.

I'm worried that geoengineering will upset the balance of things even more, a temporary and short-term solution for incidents.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#246

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Ma8ee wrote: post #181
rasz wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could start with Sulphur spray into atmosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratospheric_aerosol_injectio... Wonder how much 2020 Bunker Fuel ban contributed.

One of the many problems with limiting the amount of sunlight reaching Earth is that it reduces plant growth worldwide. This would not only decrease agricultural output, with the obvious consequences for food production, but also reduce the amount of carbon absorbed and stored by growing vegetation. Which of course wouldn't help.

And reduce evaporation, which reduces moisture in the air, which reduces rainfall, etc. I don't know what I'm talking about and already think messing with the weather in any way is a Bad Idea.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#247

Post by ignoramous »

Dibby053 wrote: post #57

For context on why this region is burning so easily: the Landes and Médoc are huge, artificial pine forests created in the 19th century under Napoleon III to drain and reclaim what was considered an inhospitable wetland, where shepherds famously walked around on stilts. Pine resin and needle litter makes it exceptionally flammable, and being an uninterrupted monoculture on flat land it lacks natural barriers to stop…

Something about the Pine tree that the British also planted forests of them in the Levant: https://www.trtworld.com/article/9ab8ec0a341a

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#248

Post by baxtr »

pepperoni_pizza wrote: post #234
baxtr wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it is more important to fight for human lives than fighting centrists or deniers tbh. You have to pick your battles.

It is centrists and deniers who are stopping us in implementing effective measures that would fight for human lives.

You will not convince them by saying things over and over again. It’s not like they haven’t heard the facts. It might have even have the opposite effect, increasing their unwillingness to believe it’s more than just a hoax.

Ask yourself: when was the last time vigorous repetition of a position has convinced you personally?

You will convince them by showing them how to do it properly. Show them the way and they might follow.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#249

Post by [deleted] »

wosk wrote: post #180

Le Monde, very reputed French newspaper (NYtimes equivalent for France perhaps) says that it’s not the first time this cloud is seen in France [1]: (translation mine) > “What is happening right now is extremely, extremely unusual. Seeing a cloud this massive and reaching such an altitude above a wildfire is exceptionally rare,” the researcher explains. “During the Pedrógão fire [which claimed around 60 lives in Portu…

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