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French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

france24.com

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Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#211

Post by watwut »

baxtr wrote: post #197
reco98gg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

You’re both right. However OPs post is more useful than yours. By now, everyone knows about climate change. But I assume most didn’t know the fact about the pine trees in this area. Nowadays it’s much more about how we deal with climate change and not so much about the fact that there is human made climate change.

> By now, everyone knows about climate change.

Not true, I have seen people deny it on HN recently.

And looking at other debates, yes it is necessary to reiterate the primary cause. Because centrists will absolutely use the lack of that reiteration to do the "well actually it is the pine trees" in two days.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#212

Post by Brian_K_White »

ornornor wrote: post #166
Den_VR wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And later, different animals and insects will live there.

Oh ok this is fine then.

Might well be. You understand that forest fires are actually natural, and this forest actually isn't, and so the suggestion is at least not automatically invalid.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#213

Post by InsideOutSanta »

ornornor wrote: post #166
Den_VR wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And later, different animals and insects will live there.

Oh ok this is fine then.

Don't worry about the end of the world, I heard the cockroaches will survive the apocalypse.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#215

Post by verisimi »

coldbrewed wrote: post #106
ColdStream wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Probably a dozen reasons why we cannot that I am unaware of, but from my arm chair it looks good.

The water was likely redirected for agricultural purposes and the farmers won't/can't surrender it on top of drought, if it's anything like the US. Would be real cool if we could make investments like this though.

This is another point that is overlooked. If you transform a landscape, moving the water through quickly or whatever, preventing the natural action (eg deeply drenching the ground) perhaps you create a high risk of a fire where the ground gets very hot, where that wasn't a possibility before.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#216

Post by ifwinterco »

reco98gg wrote: post #140
Dibby053 wrote: post #57

For context on why this region is burning so easily: the Landes and Médoc are huge, artificial pine forests created in the 19th century under Napoleon III to drain and reclaim what was considered an inhospitable wetland, where shepherds famously walked around on stilts. Pine resin and needle litter makes it exceptionally flammable, and being an uninterrupted monoculture on flat land it lacks natural barriers to stop…

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

There’s also a significant amount of pretty sudden local warning in the North Atlantic region because of the sudden removal of sulphur emissions from ships a few years ago (thanks, IMO…).

And on top of that it’s El Niño.

Edit: Before anyone misconstrues what I'm saying: no, I'm not denying global warming. I'm just saying this is why this summer in particular was always likely to be a hot one in Europe.

And going forwards the sulphur thing has most likely caused a step change from temperatures in Europe before Covid, despite underlying warming continuing at the same rate

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#217

Post by baxtr »

watwut wrote: post #211
baxtr wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re both right. However OPs post is more useful than yours. By now, everyone knows about climate change. But I assume most didn’t know the fact about the pine trees in this area. Nowadays it’s much more about how we deal with climate change and not so much about the fact that there is human made climate change.

> By now, everyone knows about climate change. Not true, I have seen people deny it on HN recently. And looking at other debates, yes it is necessary to reiterate the primary cause. Because centrists will absolutely use the lack of that reiteration to do the "well actually it is the pine trees" in two days.

For me, it is more important to fight for human lives than fighting centrists or deniers tbh. You have to pick your battles.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#218

Post by Ma8ee »

andsoitis wrote: post #193
Ma8ee wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't put this on the environmentalists when the simple explanation isn't short term cost effective to do this. If you need to put some big blanket blame, then blame capitalism. If nothing else because it has so far stopped all effective measure to stop the climate crisis.

> blame capitalism. If nothing else because it has so far stopped all effective measure to stop the climate crisis. Growth-driven ecological harm isn’t unique to capitalism.

And? Capitalism is the current system, and the one that is actively thwarting efforts to mitigate the disaster. I don't see how the existence of other systems that would be equally bad or worse is relevant.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#219

Post by derriz »

lazystar wrote: post #201
derriz wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The vast majority of fossil fuel production globally is through state-owned companies.

in the 1800's, were the vast majority of horses produced through state owned companies? that process was upended by human ingenuity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Benz begging governments to solve the problem has obviously failed; focusing our efforts on fostering ideas and inventions is our best hope at getting our of this mess.

We have all the technological tools available to largely decarbonize energy. We don’t have to wait for, nor have the time, to wait around for a deus-ex-machina.

Given the dominance of state level actors in fossil fuel extraction (a role they did not have in horse based transport), to deny states have a role in decarbonizing energy seems naive. I don’t see what’s unreasonable to suggest that the current massive resources states put into supporting fossil fuel consumption and spending on wars to protect its production and distribution be redirected towards accelerating the adoption of modern clean energy production and use.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#220

Post by throwaway2037 »

jcattle wrote: post #196

Just an aside: I'm a researcher trying to classify forest disturbance types from satellite imagery. The Landes Forest which is currently burning is really interesting in that you have all 4 of the major European disturbance types there: Human clear cuts, storm damage, large scale insect infestation and fire. Most other forested areas in Europe only have two or three of these. For example most of the Mediterranean doe…

How can you identify large scale insect infestation from satellite imagery?
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