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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#241
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you use Netherlands as a good example, considering that famously, their existing unusually thorough registry was super helpful for the Nazis rounding up jews later. I don't think it's Godwin's Law when you are so spot on, exactly describing the worst case.

Why would an age verification app need to know your ethnicity/religion? Governments likely already know your name, age, place of birth, so having an app with a standard API for verifying users isn't giving the government additional data.

Governments will track with whom you verify. Much worse.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

Homeschool and exercise close, very close, supervision over what your kids do on the internet. I'd have hated this as a child. But the case for unrestricted internet and social media access for children being harmful, at this point, seems pretty shut. For those who sadly cannot homeschool their children... well, we need to push for school choice and to dismantle the teachers' unions. Which probably ultimately is the…

In many European countries, homeschooling does not really exist. For good reasons. Mingling with many kids from the same age cohort with diverse backgrounds is good for kids. Homeschooling is also often used by religious zealots to indoctrinate their children.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#243

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

I hear you on the overall privacy issues related to age verification with US Corps. My concern with government registries of personal information is related to things like: - Netherlands, WWII: The Dutch civil registry meticulously recorded religion. It’s a major reason ~75% of Dutch Jews were killed, the highest rate in occupied Western Europe (vs ~25% in France, where records were poorer). - US, Japanese internment…

> - Netherlands, WWII: The Dutch civil registry meticulously recorded religion. It’s a major reason ~75% of Dutch Jews were killed, the highest rate in occupied Western Europe (vs ~25% in France, where records were poorer).

Records were poorer in France because René Carmille and the French resistance sabotaged the machines. Machines made by a large tech company which was a competitor to IBM.

> Who knows what kinds of ethnicities, beliefs, behaviors or personal histories will be the focus of future regimes?

Absolutely. But I do know who has that data -- big tech, and it's willing to sell it for a nominal price. No doubt that price will be higher for a deaparate government wanting to kill everyone with green eyes, but that just means a higher profit margin for facebook as they mine their shadow profiles.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are other options, such as refusing games that require them. How about the option of the state not being so tyrannical in meddling about what people anonymously do online in their free time?

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.

Don't get me started. We try to restrict internet time, no Youtube (Shorts are poison/heroin), TikTok, etc. They go to primary school and there is a teacher that makes TikTok videos at school, they can play Roblox in breaks, etc. (Aside from this issue, the teachers are great though!)

There are only so many battles you can choose as a parent (not getting your kids photographed, put on Facebook, etc.).

In contrast to what the grandparent states, the government should unambiguously state: no smartphones, social media, and online games in primary school, period. That's the only way to make it work. Ironically, smartphones are forbidden in all high schools here.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a bag of chips without having to show my ID. There is a big difference between: Government demands every website to have age verification, and government supported scheme by which service can opt into age verification. As of now, American private spyware is actively filling the demand. I get the feeling some privacy advocates are approaching the choice as a tier system, with government being the worst case.…

Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children. Yes parents have a role here but we live in a society and we depend on/demand everyone doing their part. We (the tech sector) made our own bed here.

> Government is demanding age verification because the websites and platforms completely punted on the issue of keeping inappropriate content from children.

Nah. Parental Controls are baked into every major consumer OS. If government cared about giving guardians the tools needed to care for the vulnerable ones they're responsible for, they'd require those parental controls to be beefed up [0] and that it be a requirement that online services and both local and remote software be required to honor the restrictions required by those Parental Controls.

Instead, what we get proposed is a system that cares very much about how old you are, and not one bit about the things that one's guardian understands one needs to be protected from. This system will work for some under-eighteens, but it will fail for many others, as well as every single dementia-damaged elder or brain-damaged/developmentally-stunted adult.

What's being proposed is absolutely not about protecting people... if it were, the mandate would be to beef up the existing fully-anonymous systems, rather than requiring identifying information from users.

[0] ...I mention this because I often hear in Internet discussion that these controls are insufficient, not because I have personal knowledge that they're inadequate.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their parents won't protect them and everyone else has to pay for it. maybe they shouldn't have been allowed to have kids.

Nothing could possibly go wrong with eugenics

The Idiocracy scenario we've stepped into isn't much better...

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#248
Don't use it. Don't even consider it. Do whatever it takes to let everyone know you're not gonna use this and tell your friends the same.

These corrupt bafoons talk of sovereignty and then they pull stunts like this. Even if you're totally pro EU, vote with your actions if you can't outvote the Commission.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It requires reason to understand the consequences of your decisions. Reason is something democracies have a shortage of. Thus, democracies structurally suffer from issues like this.

It worked great for the last several hundred years. The problem is that as government keeps expanding to control more and more of our lives, every decision it makes it necessarily imposes on everyone, whether they agree with that decision or not. E.g. In a country of 100M people, if 60% agree with a bill and it becomes law, the country has imposed that law on 40M people against their will. That's just as true in a di…

> It worked great for the last several hundred years.

No, it did not.

> E.g. In a country of 100M people, if 60% agree with a bill and it becomes law

That's not how that law was adopted.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#250

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

I hear you on the overall privacy issues related to age verification with US Corps. My concern with government registries of personal information is related to things like: - Netherlands, WWII: The Dutch civil registry meticulously recorded religion. It’s a major reason ~75% of Dutch Jews were killed, the highest rate in occupied Western Europe (vs ~25% in France, where records were poorer). - US, Japanese internment…

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