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European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

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Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#191

Post by vrganj »

sva_ wrote: post #160
skrebbel wrote: post #30

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

I guess that is one way to manufacture consent.

As another European, I agree with GP.

I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company.

I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#192

Post by leonvoss »

inigyou wrote: post #166
jck86 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is needed to protect the children. The politicians say so, so it has to be true. Being against this is very dangerous to our children and democracy. There is no alternative. Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. The threat this measure poses to the internet and society is significant, ye…

Maybe we should protect the children and then they couldn't use the excuse

their parents won't protect them and everyone else has to pay for it. maybe they shouldn't have been allowed to have kids.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#193

Post by leonvoss »

jck86 wrote: post #143
anal_reactor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. That's where you're wrong. Most people actually do agree with age verification. Just because a decision is stupid it doesn't mean it's undemocratic. Trump was elected democratically, twice. Brexit passed through a referendum.

Most people are in favor of solving world hunger, poverty, the wars and climate change. Until you hand them the bill. Likewise most people will not agree with age verification when actually implemented.

It requires reason to understand the consequences of your decisions. Reason is something democracies have a shortage of. Thus, democracies structurally suffer from issues like this.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#194

Post by Eduard »

vrganj wrote: post #191
sva_ wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is one way to manufacture consent.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

> I can also vote out my government.

No.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#195

Post by leonvoss »

roundabout-host wrote: post #84
jck86 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is needed to protect the children. The politicians say so, so it has to be true. Being against this is very dangerous to our children and democracy. There is no alternative. Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. The threat this measure poses to the internet and society is significant, ye…

Children die from wrongly-prepared food, thus we should only allow people to eat at McDonald's from now on! /s

When they run out of other rights to destroy, they will pipe videos of little girls crying from food poisoning into your e-verified telescreen during ChildSafe^TM viewing hours, and the result will be that you will get to choose between two state approved restaurants thereafter.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#196

Post by Fomorian »

zeta0134 wrote: post #99
joe_mamba wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are other options, such as refusing games that require them. How about the option of the state not being so tyrannical in meddling about what people anonymously do online in their free time?

This is generally my opinion, and goodness it's swung around quite a bit. This entire debate feels like it should be solved by adequate parental controls. To the extent that it matters, I think the missing link here is "primary education should support a parent's intent to limit unrestricted internet access for their children." That is, during school activities where internet use is unavoidable, require supervision.…

Homeschool and exercise close, very close, supervision over what your kids do on the internet.

I'd have hated this as a child. But the case for unrestricted internet and social media access for children being harmful, at this point, seems pretty shut.

For those who sadly cannot homeschool their children... well, we need to push for school choice and to dismantle the teachers' unions. Which probably ultimately is the same thing.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#197

Post by joe_mamba »

vrganj wrote: post #191
sva_ wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is one way to manufacture consent.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

[flagged]

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#198

Post by Ajedi32 »

vrganj wrote: post #191
sva_ wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that is one way to manufacture consent.

As another European, I agree with GP. I don't fully trust my government. But I definitely trust it more than any American tech company. I can also vote out my government. I can't do that for Big Tech.

> I can also vote out my government.

You can't. Not if you're in the minority. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.

You what you as an individual most certainly can do is stop using Roblox. Not ideal, but way easier than moving to a new country.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#199

Post by leonvoss »

toasty228 wrote: post #137
lstodd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.

I love how "they" wanting to know your age is a big conspiracy, but zuck &co hiring the best behavioral and addictions scientists to get yours kids into doomscrolling brain rot as soon as possible is a fact of life and we shouldn't do anything about it

The solution is banning dark patterns at big tech companies, not banning privacy.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#200

Post by Ajedi32 »

leonvoss wrote: post #193
jck86 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are in favor of solving world hunger, poverty, the wars and climate change. Until you hand them the bill. Likewise most people will not agree with age verification when actually implemented.

It requires reason to understand the consequences of your decisions. Reason is something democracies have a shortage of. Thus, democracies structurally suffer from issues like this.

It worked great for the last several hundred years. The problem is that as government keeps expanding to control more and more of our lives, every decision it makes it necessarily imposes on everyone, whether they agree with that decision or not.

E.g. In a country of 100M people, if 60% agree with a bill and it becomes law, the country has imposed that law on 40M people against their will. That's just as true in a dictatorship as it is in a democracy. The more areas of our lives government involves itself in, the bigger this problem becomes.

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