One way a bubble can pop is from the healthy endavours to devour the bubble inhabitants whose funds run out in a legal feeding frenzy?
Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
951–960 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#952Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm fine with people creating wealth that becomes theirs. That wealth appears because other people place value on it. The wealth is not taken from other people. If you decided to cap it, it caps prosperity of the economy, because their wealth comes from creating what other people want. Why would you want to limit prosperity? Keep in mind that Mush created 4000 millionaires the day SPCX was IPO'd.
I’m just not convinced that value creation and value extraction are well-linked when examining outlier cases. The nature of outliers makes it far more likely that value extraction would be much more likely to exceed net value creation. Even if for the more median percentiles, value creation and extraction are well-correlated. I wouldn’t suggest a cap, but I would suggest very high tax rates and a more stern eye towar…
> politicians steal as much money as they can
I am not talking about people who steal wealth, which is illegal. I'm not celebrating or making excuses for thieves or criminals. I'm talking about people who create wealth via the free market.
I agree that externalities are a problem, as it pushes costs onto others.
> as well as an economy that actually meets the assumptions of a “free market”: i.e. no individual buyer or seller has enough concentrated power to significantly impact the supply-demand curve all by themselves.
The free market does not require that a large player be prohibited from shifting the s-d curve. For example, ever-cheaper computers shifted the curve. And that was good for us.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#953Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you elaborate on the loopholes here?
I'm unwilling to speculate whether or not OpenAI is breaking their agreements (I honestly have no clue), but as an NLP researcher I'm certain they could launder data by having an LLM rewrite it and subsequently train on the rewritten data. Papers like "Curated Synthetic Data Doesn't Have to Collapse" [1] and "How to Synthesize Text Data without Model Collapse?" [2] demonstrate it's possible to do this. Since OpenAI's…
Yeah, I guess that's possible. Anthropic has published some information about systems they use to monitor usage patterns, which indicates they have some related infrastructure set up.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#954The irony to me is Apple did the exact same thing to Motorola back in the day, which I saw firsthand as a Mot eng. Poached employees and IP. I doubt the iPhone would have happened otherwise. Jobs was absolutely ruthless and would do anything for his goals.
Of course, this is essentially the basis of capitalism. Corporations are just people, folks, spread the knowledge and we all get richer. The best corporations I worked at had people dedicated to reverse engineering competitor products and were deeply steeped in the market, the worst were those where product just cared about making their bosses happy.
Reverse engineering is not the same as this.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#955Earlier quoted context omitted.
People downvote you like you're being paranoid, but we're literally discussing this in a thread that shows how little respect those companies have for any sort of trade secrets.
How does the allegation make any sense? AI labs can hardly just throw random confidential data into the training and then hope it does not leak into the output of their model in an obvious way. If that would be found it would destroy their main source of revenue, it could became a major national security or healthcare enforcement matter, and result in criminal investigations.
And yet it seems quite clear that they have been directly instructing Apple employees on how to steal data from Apple and bring it to OpenAI - explicitly stealing internal trade secrets from the largest company in the world, one known for its paranoia about leaking any company secrets.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#956Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is obviously true to a large extent, but it is also weirdly necessary to explain basic ethical precepts to a surprisingly large number of otherwise well-educated people. Believe it or not, a significant number of people simple don’t know that it’s unethical to, e.g. exfiltrate code or data from a former employer. Making it clear that this is an ethical line may have some value.
I mean a lot of people work for companies that do unethical things to their customers all day, why would the company expect ethical treatment back?
A does unethical things to B, therefore I can do unethical things to A.
This clearly doesn't work as an argument if A and B are people. Seems like classic 'two wrongs make a right' reasoning.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#957Earlier quoted context omitted.
These were long tenured and valued employees at Apple. They likely already had healthy pile of cash and stock. Maybe it was the environment at OpenAI encouraging this behavior. Or, is this a particular set of skills some/all of the individuals mentioned were already well-practiced at? I hope this case goes to court so we can find out.
Or maybe they are just greedy, terrible human beings.
So, typical species in Silicon Valley?
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#958Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. How do you know that?
Well we don’t know but just look at figma, claude for it happened and then Claude design come out. They knew exactly how developers worked from using figma as training data.
Professionals still use figmas. Claude design jsut expanded the space. Non-design specialized use Claude design now.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#959Earlier quoted context omitted.
> only for Masimo’s patents. Sorry but there's no such thing as "only patents", these are often what companies live and die for. The handwaving of Apple wrongdoings have no limits.
All of three of these companies are huge $10+ billion corporations who are capable of doing good and bad simultaneously. If you’re happy painting them as black or white, that your choice, but some people are interested in the specific facts of each case. All I did was quote a fact without any additional comments, and you are the one being dismissive and handwaving it away.
You're the one downplaying "breaking patents", not me.
Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets
#960Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ceo fired then coup's his way back into the company Are we discussing Steve Jobs in 1985? Any time there is that much money and power involved there is going to be intense drama.
> Are we discussing Steve Jobs in 1985? Steve Jobs left because he lost a corporate power struggle. Sam Altman was fired because the board thought he was too fundamentally untrustworthy to remain as CEO (if we're to believe their statement ofc). Different kinds of "controversy" IMO
> Steve Jobs left because he lost a corporate power struggle
Sam stayed because we won a corporate power struggle.
Likely Steve Jobs left because if we stayed we would have been fired or removed of all responsibilities.