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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#621

Post by andyjohnson0 »

throw0101a wrote: post #223
Aurornis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

> Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them […] At $WORK we have the option of getting a work smartphone or having the company pay for (at portion of) our monthly mobile bill. I chose a work device because I do not want any cross-contamination. (Others chose payment because they did not want the 'hassle' of carrying a second device (and to save some cash).)

> I chose a work device because I do not want any cross-contamination.

This is a wise choice. For me, nothing personal goes onto my work phone or laptop. And nothing work-related goes onto personal devices. Life is just easier that way.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#622

Post by __natty__ »

Aurornis wrote: post #124
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

OpenAI chosen not the sharpest tool in the shed

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#624

Post by bel8 »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #306

Quick reminder that Apple was part of the silicon valley crew that partook of illegal non-poaching arrangements with other SV companies, helping to stifle salaries and more. But, that's a bit of a tangent. On the other hand, Apple is accused of (and a jury ruled against them on the issue) hiring from Masimo to steal trade secret. Appeals are pending, of course, but it's a reminder that Apple is not lily white on this…

Yeah I cannot feel any sympathy for either companies here.

They all do this exact thing, including Apple. OpenAI was just the last one to get caught.

And if OpenAI uses this hardware information to bring less locked hardware to the masses, wishful thinking I know, then more power to them.

If AI keeps improving, it is very important to make sure everyone gets at least a smidge of a chance of equal access to AI otherwise the income disparity will grow even more. And Apple is the last company in the world to think of the masses. They sell $1000 aluminium monitor stands: https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-monitor-stand-price-re...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#625

Post by OtomotO »

hvb2 wrote: post #569
OtomotO wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly that. I wasn't reachable by phone for company related stuff outside my regular working hours unless I had on-call-duty, which means it was working hours. I don't get why people would be proud about not setting boundaries.

Some people are in it for the challenge. Someone else's outage? Yeah I'll happily help diagnose it, analysing and figuring out where the issue is can teach you a lot of things. For the record, this was never at night. Late in the evening, sure.

I do that as well, since I am my own business

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#626

Post by discopicante »

taurath wrote: post #525
Aurornis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

> This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply to you. Its also how some folks act like when they've done something they morally can't deal with - their subconscious starts throwing all sorts of obvious signs up until they get caught. I presume this was done for a giant pile of cash, stock, and probably a promise that nobody really cares if you sh…

These were long tenured and valued employees at Apple. They likely already had healthy pile of cash and stock.

Maybe it was the environment at OpenAI encouraging this behavior. Or, is this a particular set of skills some/all of the individuals mentioned were already well-practiced at?

I hope this case goes to court so we can find out.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#627

Post by estearum »

danshipt wrote: post #539
estearum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

> Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work? You just described the whole AI industry

Sure? That's also bad.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#628

Post by amazingamazing »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #269
xnx wrote: post #38

A company that behaves like this in one area, cannot be trusted in any area. Any enterprise that endorses/allows OpenAI products to be used is taking a big risk.

The same can be said about Apple. Several companies have complained about them taking a meeting with apple, presenting their product, only to have Apple then rip it off and build it in house. To say nothing of sherlocking.

Example?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#629

Post by estearum »

yxhuvud wrote: post #503
estearum wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

Trade secrets dont have a time limit. But if they can pay some people to produce the knowledge they can also pay them to not share it after they change employers. Just like regular noncompete clauses I don't see why this is something that require more than regular contract law or why it should be inherent instead of negotiated for a fee.

I 100% guarantee that this was forbidden by the contract the employee signed.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#630

Post by estearum »

latexr wrote: post #584
gdhvkkk wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because, the lack of mention of that word IS a culture issue. or, how you interpret the question is part of the interview process...

Sam Altman clearly has no qualms with lying and being unethical and eventually was at the front of Y Combinator, so that question either doesn’t care for ethics, doesn’t do a good job of filtering, or specifically filters in favour of unethical behaviour.

Or unethical people are hard to spot, in part due to, you know... their lack of ethics.
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