Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#941

Post by godelski » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 4:20 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #124

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

  > Whenever I leave a company

Whenever I start at a company I create a "firewall"[0] between everything. No personal stuff on company machines, no work stuff on personal machines. I don't want them spying on my personal life. I'm not sure why others are okay with their employers spying on them and having access to their devices.

[0] I'm worried if I don't put in quotes people will think I just create a VLAN. I do that but I also mean it in the non technical sense. e.g. if a company wants to use smartphone apps I tell them to give me a company phone, they don't get to use mine for free.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#942

Post by godelski » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 4:31 AM UTC

discopicante wrote: post #626

taurath wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply to you. Its also how some folks act like when they've done something they morally can't deal with - their subconscious starts throwing all sorts of obvious signs up until they get caught. I presume this was done for a giant pile of cash, stock, and probably a promise that nobody really cares if you sh…

These were long tenured and valued employees at Apple. They likely already had healthy pile of cash and stock. Maybe it was the environment at OpenAI encouraging this behavior. Or, is this a particular set of skills some/all of the individuals mentioned were already well-practiced at? I hope this case goes to court so we can find out.

  > They likely already had healthy pile of cash and stock.

True for every billionaire too. They have so much money not only do they make it faster than they can literally spend it[0]. They have so much money their great grandchildren never have to work, even if they procreate like Musk.

For many people money is not about how it can be used to buy things to improve your life but about the social status that that wealth gives you. Take Musk as an example. He cared a lot about becoming a trillionaire. But even a billion is an incomprehensible level of wealth

[0] on a 5% interest account you'd make >$5k/hr or >$4m every month. Literally the time it takes to spend your money will allow you to recoup it. E.g in the time it takes to buy a Tesla you'll have earned more than a Tesla costs. Same even for supercars, which take longer to buy.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#943

Post by nerdsniper » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:21 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #939

nerdsniper wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When analyzing an optimization problem, the optimal values for the input variables are often found to lie somewhere between min and max. It’s not clear that the person you replied to was advocating for one extreme, but even given that your strawman-esque assertion is probably true … I’d suggest analyzing a few other points in the domain beyond merely the two extremes that you contrasted. Which range of the domain do…

I'm fine with people creating wealth that becomes theirs. That wealth appears because other people place value on it. The wealth is not taken from other people. If you decided to cap it, it caps prosperity of the economy, because their wealth comes from creating what other people want. Why would you want to limit prosperity? Keep in mind that Mush created 4000 millionaires the day SPCX was IPO'd.

I’m just not convinced that value creation and value extraction are well-linked when examining outlier cases. The nature of outliers makes it far more likely that value extraction would be much more likely to exceed net value creation. Even if for the more median percentiles, value creation and extraction are well-correlated.

I wouldn’t suggest a cap, but I would suggest very high tax rates and a more stern eye towards anti-competitive practices and negative externalities.

As a thought experiment:

Celebrating unbounded greed (the most “extreme” option) would be celebrating when politicians steal as much money as they can by manipulating stock markets and Kalshi and taking crypto bribes, taking kickbacks from contractors and blackmailing or strong-arming the other branches of government.

Celebrating unbounded greed would be celebrating selling poisoned food and telling ourselves that its the stupid people’s fault for buying melamine-contaminated milk without getting it tested by their own independent third party before drinking it. And then blaming the stupid people again when their third party testing lab that was trustworthy gets purchased by the same private equity group that owns the milk company and starts watering down or falsifying their tests.

Celebrating unbounded greed would be celebrating people whose wealth increased by neglecting expensive safety protocols, blowing up neighborhoods with gas explosions, and silencing them by intimidation, as well as blackmailing and bribing the judges overseeing any torts.

The more of this you allow and celebrate, the more your outliers grow and become a true bimodal distribution. Where the peak earners are, by necessity, extracting more value than they create.

The thing is, we have had a lot of things like this happen in most developed countries. There is a lot of corruption, and it’s not divided along party lines. Celebrating and glorifying unbounded greed is likely to lead towards a state where there’s less “rule of law” and more “rule by force”.

Relatively unbounded greed can probably work quite well in a society with a strong rule of law to protect against corruption, dangerous/damaging corner cutting and fraud… as well as an economy that actually meets the assumptions of a “free market”: i.e. no individual buyer or seller has enough concentrated power to significantly impact the supply-demand curve all by themselves.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#944

Post by ryukoposting » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:26 AM UTC

nerdsniper wrote: post #933

WalterBright wrote: post #905

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greed is good works a lot better than everybody gets the same compensation regardless.

When analyzing an optimization problem, the optimal values for the input variables are often found to lie somewhere between min and max. It’s not clear that the person you replied to was advocating for one extreme, but even given that your strawman-esque assertion is probably true … I’d suggest analyzing a few other points in the domain beyond merely the two extremes that you contrasted. Which range of the domain do…

This guy tried to instigate a flame war with me about Rust or something a few years ago, pay no mind. Subtlety isn't in the internet's lexicon.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#945

Post by nerdsniper » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:27 AM UTC

ryukoposting wrote: post #944

nerdsniper wrote: post #933

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When analyzing an optimization problem, the optimal values for the input variables are often found to lie somewhere between min and max. It’s not clear that the person you replied to was advocating for one extreme, but even given that your strawman-esque assertion is probably true … I’d suggest analyzing a few other points in the domain beyond merely the two extremes that you contrasted. Which range of the domain do…

This guy tried to instigate a flame war with me about Rust or something a few years ago, pay no mind. Subtlety isn't in the internet's lexicon.

I respect WalterBright. I think his accomplishments are admirable. We’ve agreed on some fascinating issues in the past. We disagree sometimes. I’ve seen him thoughtfully consider new viewpoints occasionally.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#946

Post by BoorishBears » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:29 AM UTC

kode-targz wrote: post #866

BoorishBears wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% was set when they were handpicking every title, a home internet line today was a $10,000+ a month DC connection, and they could legitimately replace a publisher taking 60%. The fact they whittled away the value they provided time and time again until they became a market of slop and had the audacity to keep a 30% cut is insane. It's funny that gamers villainize Sweeny for being the person that they think Newell i…

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#947

Post by lstodd » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:33 AM UTC

Danox wrote: post #934

lstodd wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you can live quite comfortably on $1500/mo in former Yugoslavia on the seafront for example. Those $100K will last what, 5.5 years?

You need half a million 500,000 dollars @ 4% interest (major US Bank) savings account = 1666.66 per month $1,000,000 = $3,333.33 per month $1,500,000 = 5,000 per month $2,000,000 = $6,666.66 per month So with half $500,000 US dollars you could survive on 1666.66 per month in Yugoslavia most people, however, will spend beyond that amount however, the temptation is too high. Soccer players and basketball players, well…

we weren't talking about depositing misappropriated cash, yes?

So one ends with $100k and out of US. What can be done? Adriatic is one option. $100K will last long enough for something else to come up.

Also idk where you get data on "most people". My "most people" consider "(major US Bank) savings account" a losing proposition against even inflation.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#948

Post by ryukoposting » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:42 AM UTC

nerdsniper wrote: post #945

ryukoposting wrote: post #944

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy tried to instigate a flame war with me about Rust or something a few years ago, pay no mind. Subtlety isn't in the internet's lexicon.

I respect WalterBright. I think his accomplishments are admirable. We’ve agreed on some fascinating issues in the past. We disagree sometimes. I’ve seen him thoughtfully consider new viewpoints occasionally.

It's the internet. We're all somebody, we're all nobody in particular. Unless your birth certificate says Sniper, Nerd.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#949

Post by amazingman » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 5:49 AM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #534

amazingman wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI's money belongs to investors and can be pulled if, say, investors got spooked. Apple's money is much more real.

Investors get spooked the only thing they can do is mark it to zero. There's no "getting your money back" It has been spent on salaries, servers, Washington PR firms, political donations...

I'm talking about the money in the bank, the promised money to come, etc. Of course the spent money is already spent.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#950

Post by WalterBright » Sun, Jul 12, 2026, 6:20 AM UTC

bastardoperator wrote: post #923

WalterBright wrote: post #906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The growth of the welfare state sucks the life out of the economy.

Agreed, we are giving an absolute load of welfare to billionaires. From tax breaks to bailouts, and to your point, it's sucking the life out of the American economy.

Entitlements are 54 to 60% of Federal spending.