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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#191

Post by epistasis »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #140
epistasis wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They confirmed this when the vaccines were authorized. And as part of every drug, there's continual, ongoing, review of the data to ensure that safety is maintained, and that nothing has changed about the drug and its manufacturing. This is the "phase 4" of a drug, continual ongoing monitoring.

> They confirmed this when the vaccines were authorized No. They didn’t. They said it. You were the Phase3 trial. You can probably debate the ethicality, the decisions made, but do not pretend they had 5 year data before deploying to the entire world. Facts matter.

It's quite odd for a person to assert falehoods while also saying "facts matter."

Dec 11 2020- publication of phase 2/3 trial results, meaning not only was the study fully completed, but it made it through peer review too: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577

Dec 11 - 2020: first authorization https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/health/pfizer-vaccine-aut...

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#192

Post by qsera »

no-name-here wrote: post #157
vfclists wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does being "pro-vax" mean? That you believe in any claims of vaccine efficacy made by the manufacturers or the FDA and are more then willing to have them injected into your body?

If you don't believe every developed countries’ medical bodies on vaccines, where do you get your info on this? (As to the ‘pro-vax’ question, I'd define it as someone who is open to listening the medical bodies of every developed country on the planet.)

So what is the logic here?

If the only entity that you can get information from is an entity that is known to lie, you can trust this entity?

It is not that we know for a fact that X is not safe. It is that we have no reason to believe that the powers that can ensure that, does not have an incentive to do it, and a large financial incentive to NOT do it and instead grease a lot of palms and get it mandated.

This is particularly relevant when the cost to grease the palms is minuscule compared to the profit that can be made by the approval.

And it is particularly relavant when the common man cannot any relavant information about it from any other source.

We are sitting ducks here. But people apparently does not notice.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#193

Post by huijzer »

foltik wrote: post #175
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

I think it’s the opposite. The _distrust itself_ was pushed by those looking to stir up outrage, generate engagement, and turn it into votes. Case in point: look at all the people who’ve now built their entire political identities atop this unfalsifiable distrust. They’d even distrust “stand further apart” if the wrong person said it. > I do not know how this trust can be rebuilt but definitely not by publishing more…

> unfalsifiable distrust

Well, I think it’s pretty clear for starters that politicians lie (and yes this holds for both left and right; although indeed some presidents more than others), and that this isn’t helping trust.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#194

Post by d--b »

RandomLensman wrote: post #158
d--b wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By late 2020, when they got approved, the vaccines were not scientifically proven safe for mainstream use. No other mRNA vaccine had been through all the trial stages, and certainly not those COVID ones. Could the vaccines have side effects that became visible after 6 months? Yes and we couldn’t have known that they didn’t. Could the vaccines have side effects on people with rare conditions? Sure, and we couldn’t hav…

How large a trial do you want to run to capture "rare conditions"? Millions? Billions of participants? How long do you want to run trials? Years? Decades?

There is a process in place that’s meant to capture a certain number of potential problems. I didn’t make that process. The people who are making drugs safe designed the process. There is never zero risk of a treatment behaving badly, of course but when a drug gets fast tracked and doesn’t go through the regular approval process, it just hasn’t been proven to be safe by the regular standard of what experts deem safe.

It’s not very complicated.

trials ok => drug most likely ok

trials not done => we don’t really know.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#195

Post by s1artibartfast »

estearum wrote: post #179
mchusma wrote: post #160

I really feel that many of the issues with mRNA vaccines and health studies in general are generalizations like “safe and effective”. Everything has statistical risks and benefits, and we should just share those front and center with people. Eg test results for X mean you have a Y% chance of having X, given your history and symptoms and other results. Here are low cost low risk marginal things you can do to improve s…

> Similar for vaccines, just give us the numbers clearly and upfront. You are aware that literally anyone can go and literally find exactly these numbers, correct? The trial results are published!

Sounds like a oppurtunity for health educatation. 99%+ of people dont know they can look in the USPI for this data. However, it isnt the best and most up to date, which the regulator and FDA would have and are unlikely to share.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#196

Post by whimsicalism »

raincole wrote: post #138
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

> But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. In the case of COVID, the effectiveness of vaccines was quite exaggerated at first[0]. That absolutely didn't help government rebuild the trust. > I do not know how this trust can be rebuilt but definit…

> In the case of COVID, the effectiveness of vaccines was quite exaggerated at first[0]. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-business-health-governm...

One's model of "statement made by the POTUS" should be more like 'statement made by mildly likeable (to some segment of the population) boomer dad who probably doesn't know what he is talking about.' It'd be a different thing if a public health official said something like this (and I don't know if they did, but I certainly wasn't left with the impression that it was impossible for me to get vaccinated and still get covid).

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#197

Post by qsera »

RandomLensman wrote: post #158
d--b wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By late 2020, when they got approved, the vaccines were not scientifically proven safe for mainstream use. No other mRNA vaccine had been through all the trial stages, and certainly not those COVID ones. Could the vaccines have side effects that became visible after 6 months? Yes and we couldn’t have known that they didn’t. Could the vaccines have side effects on people with rare conditions? Sure, and we couldn’t hav…

How large a trial do you want to run to capture "rare conditions"? Millions? Billions of participants? How long do you want to run trials? Years? Decades?

No, it is not about large trials. It is about changing the attitude of medical practitioners and the media that refuse to acknowledge a vaccine could have caused an adverse effect.

I understand that this is to not feed the vaccine hesitancy. But to anyone observing carefully, this is a crucial break in the information chain that can feedback any ill effects of any vaccine back to the creators.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#198

Post by estearum »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #195
estearum wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similar for vaccines, just give us the numbers clearly and upfront. You are aware that literally anyone can go and literally find exactly these numbers, correct? The trial results are published!

Sounds like a oppurtunity for health educatation. 99%+ of people dont know they can look in the USPI for this data. However, it isnt the best and most up to date, which the regulator and FDA would have and are unlikely to share.

100% of people who Google something like "how do we know the covid vaccines are good" would discover that the tool we use to figure that out is called a "clinical trial." Then they can look up "covid vaccine clinical trial results."

The reality is none of these "do your own research" or "just asking questions" people are actually curious whatsoever. Curiosity requires more than zero effort. Simply saying you're "doing your own research" and "just asking questions" while regurgitating the last thing you saw on your TikTok feed is super easy and gives you all the same sense of intellectual superiority.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#199

Post by d--b »

katbyte wrote: post #146
d--b wrote: post #83

You mean the stuff the whole world got injected with in 2020? Good to know! Seriously though, I am very pro-vax, but the fact that studies like these come out now is just confirmation that people had the right to doubt the safety of mRNA back then. Many people shamed others for being anti vax but everyone has the right to be careful.

mRNA vaccines and testing of them have been around far longer then 2020

yes but no other mRNA vaccines had completed the various trial phases and got approved.

And we shouldn’t assume that all mRna vaccines are the same. The rna sequence that’s used potentially can matter as well.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#200

Post by qsera »

bsder wrote: post #170
raincole wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. In the case of COVID, the effectiveness of vaccines was quite exaggerated at first[0]. That absolutely didn't help government rebuild the trust. > I do not know how this trust can be rebuilt but definit…

The Covid vaccines were and continue to be VERY effective at preventing you from winding up on ECMO. Yes, you may still get Covid, but you don't die from drowning in your own body fluids anymore. Of course, this only attends if you got the damn vaccine. All of the Covid deaths around me in the last couple years (7 deaths) were anti-vaxxers. But, hey, we know that reality has a well-known liberal bias.

> All of the Covid deaths around me in the last couple years (7 deaths)

Where exactly is this?

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