Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#141

Post by annzabelle » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 12:56 AM UTC

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #140

annzabelle wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a coworker at a bank that was trying to emulate Tech (Capital One - all in on AWS and PIPs) who bought into it. Ended up PIPed and then is doing a PhD in a completely unrelated field. We had a mental health slack channel, and a racial politics one that rehashed Israel/Palestine daily.

>and a racial politics one We had one of those. Not slack, self hosted internal stuff. Some "senior by tenure but not title" people decided the only thing that could come of it was people running their mouths to everyone's detriment and start trolling it until nobody took it seriously and then it was quietly "collateral damage" in a migration that was also arranged.

HR ended up nuking that channel in 2023.

I think they were afraid of touching what had started as an anti racism channel until the vibes had shifted a bit.

There were both Palestinian employees and an IDF veteran Israeli employee who were seemingly spending half the workday discussing October 7th and the Intifada.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#142

Post by danpalmer » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 12:58 AM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #139

danpalmer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I read the memo. What I was not doing is taking him at his word that he "values diversity and inclusion", I was reading his actual words and the sexist dogwhistles. Stating acceptance does not absolve other intolerance. We must also look at the effect of his memo, which was to alienate many, and which caused a backlash that led to his firing. The company did not make a big deal of it just to fire him, it was indi…

"dog whistles" are, more often than not, a thinly veiled way of putting words in other people's mouthes. Damore's thesis amounted to "maybe women are 20% of software developers not because they're being discriminated against, but because they're exercising their own agency and choosing other fields." Given that about 20% of CS grads are women, it seems like a pretty reasonable stance.

In isolation, it's a very naive, oblivious, and incurious stance.

Taken alongside the rest of the content, it's a rejection of the idea that there is systemic bias, and much of his memo is dedicated to ways in which that bias can be propagated and solidified.

At best, the memo paints Damore as someone who is radically uninformed and parroting old and invalid talking points that others have given to him. At worst it implies that he knows what he's doing and is trying to dismantle processes and culture that are improving women's access to the workplace.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#143

Post by kermatt » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:07 AM UTC

Companies do not have moralities. They have revenue targets.

Any statement to the idea of a moral compass is just a form of marketing when the politics of the day align with it.

The best we can to is have independent moralities, while balancing that with the need to eat.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#144

Post by rayiner » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:13 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #109

rayiner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your broader point, but DEI versus no DEI is a bad example. That's not an example of companies sucking up to the preferred policies of whatever administration is in power. Instead, they are responding to decisive legal decisions. There is a clear legal principle at issue: the civil rights laws are symmetric as to race. The Supreme Court held that in SFFA in 2023, and again in Ames in 2025 (which was a 9-…

The clarification and specifics are welcomed. I did not have a better example at hand when I wrote the comment. Maybe ESG/climate change?

Yeah, Or crypto, AI, all sorts of things.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#145

Post by pryce » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:14 AM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #138

pryce wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. The James Damore flag was immediately taken up by major figures in transphobia (like Singal, Soh, etc) and pro-fascism campaigners (like Molyneux), both of which are political programs are absolutely incompatible with maintaining a non-hostile workplace environment for employees. (and not incidentally, both of which a premised on discredited bioessentialist pseudoscience) I find it is a deeply cynical mov…

What is the "bioessentialist pseudoscience" you're referring to?

One of them I refer to is "race essentialism" [1] which led to the long-discredited pseudoscience known as scientific racism[2], and its political associated program of eugenics,

and the other is "gender essentialism"[3] which has also been rejected by mainstream scholars across fields from biology to medicine to sociology to gender studies, and which acts in culture as a similarly pseudoscientific popular rationale for organizing society in ways that harm women and gender minorities.

The study of the field of racism is absolutely fascinating in that very quickly, the simple, obvious "commonsense" theories like "race exists as a meaningful biological category" turn out to be quite false.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism#Racial,_cultural_...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_essentialism

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#146

Post by neves » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:22 AM UTC

zerobees wrote: post #94

localhoster wrote: post #33

Not that I care in particular But claiming that google lost it's "moral compass" just now is a claim only rich people can make because they retire, not quit. Google is literally the largest, most organized, tracking and profiling company in the world. Which they tend to grow even larger with the rise of LLMs. Turning a blind eye of that for the opportunity or whatever, and than claim that _just now_ they lost their m…

Right. I have respect for Rene, but going by the "HN quitting manifestos" like this, Google has lost its moral compass at least 50 times at various points in the last 20 years. The company is constantly changing, but also hasn't changed all that much. It always talked the talk and was eager to tell others how to behave, but was almost never willing to give up any real revenue to do the right thing. The usual justific…

I when they thought it was unethical to disguise an ad as search result.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#147

Post by Manuel_D » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:26 AM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #142

Manuel_D wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"dog whistles" are, more often than not, a thinly veiled way of putting words in other people's mouthes. Damore's thesis amounted to "maybe women are 20% of software developers not because they're being discriminated against, but because they're exercising their own agency and choosing other fields." Given that about 20% of CS grads are women, it seems like a pretty reasonable stance.

In isolation, it's a very naive, oblivious, and incurious stance. Taken alongside the rest of the content, it's a rejection of the idea that there is systemic bias, and much of his memo is dedicated to ways in which that bias can be propagated and solidified. At best, the memo paints Damore as someone who is radically uninformed and parroting old and invalid talking points that others have given to him. At worst it i…

So merely contesting the notion that systemic bias is the main driver of the gender disparity in tech is grounds for instant termination? Well, that's rather troubling given that the empirical evidence on the bias in tech company hiring doesn't support the narrative of anti-female bias: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3672484

Hn discussion of the paper: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25069644

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#148

Post by Manuel_D » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:28 AM UTC

pryce wrote: post #145

Manuel_D wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the "bioessentialist pseudoscience" you're referring to?

One of them I refer to is "race essentialism" [1] which led to the long-discredited pseudoscience known as scientific racism[2], and its political associated program of eugenics, and the other is "gender essentialism"[3] which has also been rejected by mainstream scholars across fields from biology to medicine to sociology to gender studies, and which acts in culture as a similarly pseudoscientific popular rationale…

What sorts of scientific racism (or gender essentialism) have Jesse Signal and Deborah Soh propagated? To be clear, I'm not asking for a primer on scientific racism, I'm asking you to substantiate the allegations you made against specific individuals.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#149

Post by ThunderSizzle » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:34 AM UTC

GlacierFox wrote: post #118

mempko wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you have respect for Rene?

He doesn't. People start off with that when they're scared of voicing their actual opinion and it softens whatever they have to say a touch.

Like a compliment sandwich or something.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#150

Post by alsetmusic » Fri, Jun 12, 2026, 1:40 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #45

raffael_de wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are plenty of people who are financially independent but who don't choose to follow their moral compass.

Being financially independent is the moral compass of the financially independent.

> Being financially independent is the moral compass of the financially independent.

I mean, I think you meant it somewhat derisively (if not, apologies), but it's absolutely true. I work for two reasons: it gives me a higher quality of living and it anchors my life by creating structure.

I could choose to not work and be very frugal and probably be ok. But I might have to re-enter the job market later in life due to rising costs after my skills have atrophied (been there, it's horrible; no one will consider you). Or I can make certain that when the day comes that I'm ready to be done, it's at a time when making it to death without financial hardship has a much higher probability. I can also afford to enjoy nice things rather than pinching pennies.

I also know that I have a tendency to spin out if I have too much free time and not enough going with routine and a sense of contributing. Combined with the above, this means I am free to work where I want to work, doing the absolute easiest thing I can find that I still consider rewarding. I don't have to chase money or promotions (I want as little responsibility as possible).

I can walk away tomorrow if my org does something I consider unethical. I can hold out for a position that meets the above criteria rather than taking the first job I see because of desperation. When my previous employer had layoffs, I was able to remain comfortable for six months while only applying to jobs I genuinely wanted.

There's no amount of money that a Meta, Google, OpenAI, etc could offer me because even though it'd be nice to own a house in the Bay Area, I'm satisfied renting until death and don't need more than the very nice spacious home I've already got. I hit the jackpot and I'm grateful every day.