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Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

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Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#481

Post by tjoff »

silvandeboer wrote: post #423
tjoff wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But sending sensitive private audio recordings to the lowest bidder is par for the course? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49502292

This comment makes it sound like they sold private recordings to whomever was willing to pay for them, but they paid third parties to evaluate Siri recordings.

Don't really agree with that, that would have been highest bidder if anything.

And it wouldn't have been much worse compared to be as careless as they have been.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#482

Post by testfrequency »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #471
Veyu wrote: post #432

If I can't even trust the results given by ChatGPT and Claude at their highest level of reasoning in my daily life and work, would I be willing to use Siri AI to handle the important scenarios depicted in the livestream?

The idea that someone would go on a multi hour car trip based on an AI-generated route without manually checking where they're actually going is quite funny to me. Some older HN members will remember when the first stories a la 'the GPS told me to drive down that ravine' started coming out. I'm looking forward to "my AI assistant routed me to Kangiqiniq, Canada and border security detained me when I couldn't produce…

I sometimes think about the time I was on a road trip with a friend, and for what was generally a 3 hour trip to the mountain, was 5 hours for my friend driving.

Midway through the trip I was suspicious of the duration, traffic was fine. He was adamant he knew where he was going.

I pulled up google maps, and sure enough. 3 hours.

Turns out, his mapping app wasn’t aware of an offramp, so instead it wanted us to drive an extra hour, then do a u-turn and drive back to take an offramp.

He was blindly using Apple Maps

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#483

Post by fauigerzigerk »

haritha-j wrote: post #455
fennecbutt wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lmao there is no way. Think about the economics of AI inference vs. Google search. The latter was cheap and easily offset by ad views. The former is expensive, not to mention Apple has no internal prowess in this area atm. And honestly? That's fine. One company shouldn't be "doing everything" no matter how desperately Apple wants that to be the case for itself.

Google right now offers plenty of AI inference for free for everyone on the planet. They also offered their £20 AI pro package for free for over a year for all students. I use that and its a very generous offering. Some more free AI inference for Apple users (where you've now selected for high income folk, simply by virtue of being Apple users) would make plenty of sense, I imagine.

It makes no sense at all. Google offers free but limited Gemini in exchange for being able to train their models on user data.

They are also gradually introducing advertising to Gemini and they can upsell and cross sell their paid plans (Gemini, Google One, Youtube, Workspace) to a large pool of users across all their apps, platforms and integrations.

They can do none of that with the white label models they to rent to Apple. That's why Apple will always have to pay for it directly.

This is very different from the search deal Apple has with Google. Under that deal, Apple sends users straight to Google along with all the advertising revenue it brings. Google returns some of that revenue to Apple.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#484

Post by boxed »

luk212 wrote: post #21

Very Apple-ish approach to AI catch up: wrap an external tool in a privacy architecture, embed into the OS and productize the orchestration layer. It will be interesting to see if the Private Cloud Compute + on-device routing can make third-party model capabilities feel like a first-party system without leaking user context to the model provider. If Apple handles the Google-Apple boundary right, this will be an elega…

The most Apple-ish thing would be to produce a great platform, enable third parties to do something on top of it, and take a cut.

I REALLY wish they'd do that with voice assistants.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#485

Post by fragmede »

Geee wrote: post #425
JimDabell wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be more accurate to call Apple's architecture data protection rather than privacy? As an European citizen in a post Snowden world I would be surprised if any of my data on Apple services was actually kept private from the US government, and Apple certainly wants to own a lot of data/metadata about you. Your conception doesn’t seem to match PCC at all. The whole point of it is that nobody can access the…

There's no guarantee against data exfiltration, because the data leaks happens through tool calls, which are not made from the PCC, but from your own device. E.g. "the user asks if their Bitcoin private key is unique, let's make a web search". Combined with prompt injection attacks, it's quite easy for an attacker to craft a prompt which sends your private data through any supported tool call (web search, database se…

Which is a good point. set a Bitcoin wallet private key in an obvious place on your system, and then setup a monitor (on another system) to notify you if its contents gets stolen.

Doesn't prevent the exfiltration but at least you'll know when it does.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#486

Post by fragmede »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #426
appplication wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Apple, I will say I firmly believe they do not sell data. I worked in data science and we had the shittiest inference because we had essentially no access, even internally, to longitudinal or cross-app user data. Best we had was 15 minute rotating sessions for a single app. There are internal teams dedicated to deanonymizing data to try to narrow down users - if they can successfully do so, and relev…

> Having worked at Apple, I will say I firmly believe they do not sell data. Selling data is so shabby! Why sell when you can just give it away to letter-soup friends ?

Because that's not legal, so they sell it to third party data brokers and it gets resold to someone the TLAs can buy it legally from.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#487

Post by brap »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #471
Veyu wrote: post #432

If I can't even trust the results given by ChatGPT and Claude at their highest level of reasoning in my daily life and work, would I be willing to use Siri AI to handle the important scenarios depicted in the livestream?

The idea that someone would go on a multi hour car trip based on an AI-generated route without manually checking where they're actually going is quite funny to me. Some older HN members will remember when the first stories a la 'the GPS told me to drive down that ravine' started coming out. I'm looking forward to "my AI assistant routed me to Kangiqiniq, Canada and border security detained me when I couldn't produce…

About 2 years ago, my then girlfriend, who is a medical doctor (read: likely not an idiot), had ChatGPT plan a trip for us in a foreign country (naturally I had to nip it in the bud). And this was 2 years ago, when accuracy was way worse.

You would be surprised what normies are willing to delegate to AI.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#488

Post by bdavbdav »

testfrequency wrote: post #482
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that someone would go on a multi hour car trip based on an AI-generated route without manually checking where they're actually going is quite funny to me. Some older HN members will remember when the first stories a la 'the GPS told me to drive down that ravine' started coming out. I'm looking forward to "my AI assistant routed me to Kangiqiniq, Canada and border security detained me when I couldn't produce…

I sometimes think about the time I was on a road trip with a friend, and for what was generally a 3 hour trip to the mountain, was 5 hours for my friend driving. Midway through the trip I was suspicious of the duration, traffic was fine. He was adamant he knew where he was going. I pulled up google maps, and sure enough. 3 hours. Turns out, his mapping app wasn’t aware of an offramp, so instead it wanted us to drive…

In defence of Apple Maps, I find it a lot better in terms of routing and traffic than Google now (especially in the UK).

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#489

Post by ginko »

mixdup wrote: post #345
chvid wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn’t giving up the market of neither the EU nor China.

They didn't say they aren't shipping in China, just working through regulatory issues. I assume that means they're working on a China-operated "private" cloud compute instance like every other US cloud provider They did say that they are specifically not shipping in the EU because of the DMA, so until the DMA or the EC's interpretation of the DMA, changes, these new AI features aren't shipping there. That is not the…

The EC wrote the DMA. There is nothing to "interpret" for them.

Re: Apple reveals new AI architecture built around Google Gemini models

#490

Post by fauigerzigerk »

conception wrote: post #367
Bud wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's actually not hope that, and let's not indulge the EU regulators' fantasies that they get to dictate the product design of products from non-EU countries. Force Apple to support all kinds of arbitrary models? That's a comically bad idea.

“Let’s not indulge US regulators fantasies that they get to dictate the product design of cars from non-US countries.” Of course governments have the ability to decide what products are sold in their countries and how.

They ultimately don't have that power. All they can do is block the sale of products. Arguably, that power gives them leverage to negotiate the availability of some products or features. But as this Apple case shows, this negotiating leverage is limited.
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