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U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

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Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#191

Post by [deleted] »

petre wrote: post #171
rdedev wrote: post #25

I wish I could find it but Simon Clark, someone who specialized in climate science, had put out a video about how we were only recently able to model the AMOC and it's shifting patterns thanks to this measurement we were doing Edit: probably not this one but atleast tells us why measurement is needed https://youtube.com/shorts/-X5EhUbzLTY?si=_N92PNUiTi3STat6

Yrah probably someone at doge or the dept of war watched that and suggested dismantling it. What's next, closing down the NOAA because it's a "con job" and climate change is "a hoax"?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#192

Post by hattmall »

petre wrote: post #171
rdedev wrote: post #25

I wish I could find it but Simon Clark, someone who specialized in climate science, had put out a video about how we were only recently able to model the AMOC and it's shifting patterns thanks to this measurement we were doing Edit: probably not this one but atleast tells us why measurement is needed https://youtube.com/shorts/-X5EhUbzLTY?si=_N92PNUiTi3STat6

Yrah probably someone at doge or the dept of war watched that and suggested dismantling it. What's next, closing down the NOAA because it's a "con job" and climate change is "a hoax"?

Look, all I know is DOGE made huge cuts to the NOAA and the National Hurricane Center. And well the 2025 hurricane season speaks for itself.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#193

Post by elashri »

zmgsabst wrote: post #168
tdb7893 wrote: post #75

What really puts all of this into perspective for me is I work in academia and one of my friends works for a defense contractor. He told me the maintenance cost per flight hour of F-35 was a bit more than $40k, which is significantly more than I make in a year as a grad student. It's crazy basic science is what's been the focus of so many cuts while it's so cheap.

I’m sure this has nothing to do with 3.1 million graduate students versus 500 F-35s. For actual context, F-35 program receives $9B per year (amortized over lifetime), which is $3000 per year per graduate student. Erasing the F-35 program entirely would make something like a 10% difference in graduate wages, while destroying the US Air Force as a modern military. So no — your request to fund graduate students is more…

Where did you get that the number of federally funded graduate students is 3.1 million?

Note that many will have industry, international or self funded (for MS it is less common to have funding). The 9B figure for maintaining the F35 you just said is very close to the entire annual budget of the NSF. Which is the main funding source of most of non medical research.

Also we are not talking about military budget, just the F35 maintenance program here.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#194

Post by vlovich123 »

hattmall wrote: post #162
erickhill wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't take very many at all, we've now learned these past four years (and even the past 2 months). All you need are drones, that are pennies on the dollar cheaper than trillion-dollar militaries. Depending on the munition, a single bomb we drop on Iran could cost between $40,000 and a couple million dollars. Think of all the high-end drones you could buy instead. Everything is changing. Including our influence.

That isn't really accurate, small drones are enough to antagonize regional neighbors. They are far from being able to project influence, stabilize international trade, or even remotely protect a territory from an enemy that isn't concerned with civilian casualties.

Something tells me a war with china isn’t going to be carriers duking it out but carriers filled to the brim with aviation and naval drones that seek and destroy enemy craft. As Iran has shown, you don’t need to attack the USA directly to destabilize its influence. The US market economical influence has been far more important for force projection and stabilizing trade than anything else and by all accounts Trump has pissed away allies on that front too. US force projection for trade stabilization is for minor things like protecting against pirates - you don’t need million dollar missiles for that.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#195

Post by Domenic_S »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #129
efitz wrote: post #108

[flagged]

https://archive.is/fZ9CN > Michael England, a spokesman for the National Science Foundation, said the decision to dismantle the network, known as the Ocean Observatories Initiative, “aligns with N.S.F.’s wider strategy to have a nimbler approach to prioritizing support for evolving scientific priorities and emerging technologies as well as a deliberate approach to smart life cycle management within its portfolio of r…

> 1) it's not hard to do your own research. If you're here, I assume you know how.

What an awful take. The point of news shouldn't be "assume I'm right and the readership takes my word for it". It should help the reader come to a conclusion, because it's news and not opinion. If you have to go do your own research not to dig deeper but because the article failed to even cover the basic arguments, it has utterly and completely failed.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#196

Post by NotMichaelBay »

egypturnash wrote: post #68
spankibalt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

77,302,580 Americans made it happen. 87,037,184 voting-elligible Americans sat it out.

Sat it out, or were forced out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_efforts_to_restrict...

We may need a sankey.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#197

Post by dnnddidiej »

zmgsabst wrote: post #168
tdb7893 wrote: post #75

What really puts all of this into perspective for me is I work in academia and one of my friends works for a defense contractor. He told me the maintenance cost per flight hour of F-35 was a bit more than $40k, which is significantly more than I make in a year as a grad student. It's crazy basic science is what's been the focus of so many cuts while it's so cheap.

I’m sure this has nothing to do with 3.1 million graduate students versus 500 F-35s. For actual context, F-35 program receives $9B per year (amortized over lifetime), which is $3000 per year per graduate student. Erasing the F-35 program entirely would make something like a 10% difference in graduate wages, while destroying the US Air Force as a modern military. So no — your request to fund graduate students is more…

You are both comparing stuff that is nonsensical to compare $ amounts on. Would you give up science for more F-35s or vice versa? probably not or not by much.

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#198

Post by x-complexity »

iqp wrote: post #110

10 years from now: Climate Activist: The oceans are getting warmer & global currents are threatened by imminent collapse - we must do something! Big Oil: Prove it! Climate Activist: Data gathered between 2016 and 2026 shows ... Big Oil: That's old news! Do you have more recent data? Climate Activist: Well, no, because Trump2 dismantled the ocean observation system in 2026 ... Big Oil: So you have no data to back up y…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#199

Post by runako »

mothballed wrote: post #151
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US could/can, they're just not willing to undergo the mass casualties it would take to put boots on the ground It doesn’t matter what the reason, if you can’t do something you can’t do it.

I'm not interested in a lengthy semantic debate about what "can" means but I'd hope we could agree at least one possible interpretation includes things you're unwilling but able to do.

Generously, what difference does it make to any person if you technically achieve some result but in practice are not able to realize that end state?

Re: U.S. to dismantle system tracking Atlantic currents that are at risk of collapse

#200

Post by runako »

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #94
tdb7893 wrote: post #75

What really puts all of this into perspective for me is I work in academia and one of my friends works for a defense contractor. He told me the maintenance cost per flight hour of F-35 was a bit more than $40k, which is significantly more than I make in a year as a grad student. It's crazy basic science is what's been the focus of so many cuts while it's so cheap.

How many million graduate students do you need to give the US the military hegemony and political influence over allies and adversaries that the F-35 program provides ? Looked at from a policy maker's viewpoint, things look very different.

Curious -- from where do you think the basic research originated that allowed the F-35 program to exist at all?

We are certainly not naive enough to think that Lockheed Martin does basic research.

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