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Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

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Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i read it as most likely people will lose their retirements if the companies goes bust. is that correct? in my country now they move to new pension model which will allow more aggressive investments with them. i am worried it will just get sent to these bros and i'll work until i die.

The gamble is that you either succeed or fail. If you try nothing you'll work until you die regardless. Current system: Work until you die. New system collapses: Work until you die. New system lucks out: Probably get returns (pension).

I doubt that a FAANG programmer from hacker news has to work till they die. You are doing something wrong.

Current system isnt great but works. Just fear uncertainity doubt here.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#532
post #489

For SpaceX (and possible the others): Yes it can, since they changed the rules to force over $30 trillion in passive 401k and retirement money to buy SpaceX at IPO valuations. From https://x.com/Hedgeye/status/2060435253928604065 : "Rule changes for the SpaceX $SPCX IPO: Index providers waived the profitability requirement and cut the seasoning window from 90 days to 5. This forces over $30 trillion in passive 401k a…

This is going to be very... "interesting". SpaceX will IPO with minimal float, while at the same time forcing every index fund to buy a fixed percentage. A long squeeze, so to speak. I can't picture any scenario where this ends well.

It's honestly blown out of proportion. S&P 500 allocation is float adjusted, i.e. the allocation is based on the market cap of the floated shares, not the total market cap. SpaceX float is ~4% at IPO, and at a $1.75T valuation that's $70B in floated shares.

SpaceX will be ~0.125% of the index. The actual amount of buying is in the low tens of billions, and given these are $30 trillion+ markets, this is hardly anything to fret about.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? An index fund represents the market (usually top 100 or 500 companies), and SpaceX will certainly be in the top few companies. I would argue it's a lot riskier to buy it after the IPO price (if you're buying it secondary it would be easier to spike prices by accident), plus then it's not representative of the actual market until you've purchased the stock. Unless I'm misunderstanding this, buying at the sale pri…

Why does SpaceX warrant a change of existing trading rules?

Because twitter helped elect those who set the rules now.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#534

All these things are apparently valued at trillions of dollars these days. Where's the trillions, or hundreds of billions worth in improved quality of life? What has gotten better other than the ability to produce more crap?

Isn't that the market cap of the company? That doesn't mean the company creates trillions of dollars of value. It just means the number of shares times the last per share trading price is trillions of dollars.

One would assume that the "market cap" of the company is equivalent to it's *worth*. Asking how Anthropic is worth $1tn+ is a valid question when it doesn't do much, apart from the promise of making a large fraction of the world unemployed and the rest under the thumb of unethical American tech supremacy. It's arguably built on the largest intellectual property theft in the history of mankind. That's generally what people worry about. Whether that's "true" or not I guess is how you frame your world view.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#535
Maybe to counter some of the apparently widely expected doom and gloom:

- bubbles are notoriously unpredictable and generally don't happen when they are loudly and widely proclaimed to happen any minute now.

- large scale infrastructure spending tends to be really good for economies. These three companies are creating lots of jobs that are mostly related to construction, energy infrastructure, hardware spending, etc. That's a lot of money flowing to suppliers and regions where that spending happens.

- While overly pessimistic sentiments about AI and space companies are widespread they aren't much more rational than the overly optimistic ones. The realist scenario could actually be that, AI and especially Agentic AI is already quite useful and the total addressable market for that is obviously larger than it is today. The question is how large. Likewise, dropping the cost of launching stuff into orbit by one or two orders of magnitude, should create a much larger market for launching stuff there. Including possibly some AI relevant compute.

The valuations of these companies are probably on the high side and I'd expect post IPO share values to drop quite a bit and would not personally consider buying anything until after that happens. But that won't necessarily trigger a stock market crisis or a collapse of these well financed companies. All the spending these companies are doing is very real and the profits of their suppliers are going to be equally real. So some of those share value losses might be offset by gains for other stocks and economic growth. The stock market and economy aren't zero sum games.

However, there are worrying macroeconomic trends happening at the same time (Iran conflict, Ukraine war) that are disrupting global markets already. But you could argue that dumping tens or hundreds of billions into e.g. energy infrastructure and data centers isn't the worst way to counter those for a country like the US. The big picture might actually be pretty positive. Especially if we can dodge global economic misery via a prolonged Gulf conflict that at this point seems to serve no point whatsoever for anyone except perhaps Israel.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#536
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be a 5 alarm fire. It reminds me of nothing more than organized crime rackets that targeted control of union retirement funds

Okay before we set off the alarm though, can someone tell me What percentage of these index funds will be SPCX and TSLA? Like if both these stocks become penny stocks what happens to the indices? Isn’t the whole point that they are hedged across the whole market?

Assuming $75B float for SpaceX

* S&P500: 0.08% – 0.12%

* NASDAQ-100: 0.47% – 0.70%

* Russell 1000: 0.1%

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#537

For SpaceX (and possible the others): Yes it can, since they changed the rules to force over $30 trillion in passive 401k and retirement money to buy SpaceX at IPO valuations. From https://x.com/Hedgeye/status/2060435253928604065 : "Rule changes for the SpaceX $SPCX IPO: Index providers waived the profitability requirement and cut the seasoning window from 90 days to 5. This forces over $30 trillion in passive 401k a…

[deleted]

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is a measure of the cost of living. It's not got loads to do with large-scale, institutional investments.

That depends. Inflation is a measure of the cost of living in terms of currency. It can be high either if goods and services required for living become scarce, or if currency supply increases. Currency supply increasing does affect asset prices.

Yes, but they're not directly correlated. Of course events can affect them both! Going to war would both increase the cost of living and (some) asset prices would go way up. But that doesn't mean they should be measured together like that.

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like these make me feel like we're living in different worlds. I use LLMs multiple times a day and they've significantly improved my quality of life. They are also steadily becoming more useful over time (e.g. now solving math problems).

I’d love it if for once someone on here saying LLMs are some life changing apparatus would give a single example.

Try the prompt to opus 4.8:

does "das man" know they are part of the crowd?

Re: Can the stockmarket swallow Anthropic, SpaceX and OpenAI?

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i read it as most likely people will lose their retirements if the companies goes bust. is that correct? in my country now they move to new pension model which will allow more aggressive investments with them. i am worried it will just get sent to these bros and i'll work until i die.

No, it's wrong. Amazon is worth $2.81T right now and only represents 4.03% of the S&P500. So a $1T share would represent less than 2% of the S&P500. This is significant for a single company, and 6% for 3 shit-tier companies (SpaceX, OpenAI and Anthropic) is even more significant, but we're far from "losing retirement if they go bust"-levels.

I've recently learned a new finance term, "float", and I want to check if this makes a difference to this discussion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_float

I hear S&P 500 is weighted on float rather than on market cap, while Nasdaq 100 is based on market cap.

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