Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Moore's Law approaching its end. People have been calling the top on Moore's Law for at least as long as I've been buying computers. (~20 years). I'll believe it when I see it.
We're already seeing it if most are incapable of recognizing it. The chip folks aren't doing ridiculously complicated things like https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductor-technology-roadmap in $30 billion+ fabs for the fun of it.
It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
491–500 of 695 posts
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#492What Framework is trying to do feels like something that would've made more sense 10 years ago. And the reason for that is b/c of Moore's Law approaching its end. The way to manufacture more efficient compute now is do things like put DRAM closer to the chip and even closer integration between CPU and GPU. The fact that Apple can co-design their silicon such that the CPU and GPU can pull from the same pooled RAM is a…
> The fact that Apple can co-design their silicon such that the CPU and GPU can pull from the same pooled RAM is a major advantage over competitors. Lots of laptops have integrated graphics. And many recent CPUs have strong integrated graphics. They're not doing anything special there. I don't understand why that gets so much attention. The special thing they do is having very wide bandwidth on the higher end models,…
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm constantly surprised by just how bad macOS is as a Linux user. I currently have to deal with it sometimes as I run my local LLM server on it and it's painful. That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used.
> I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used. Until you need to repair something or change some hardware ... Which is something the author of the article totally neglects, IMHO.
The overwhelming majority of people would just go buy a new one. The downtime for ordering parts and waiting repairs has a price tag, likely greater than the laptop's price. Maybe that will change with how the prices of everything have been soaring lately.
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve had MacBook Pros for as long as they’ve existed and, honestly, I’ve never needed a repair. The only real issue I’ve had was when I dropped one and destroyed the screen. It was covered by AppleCare, and Apple replaced it. I usually get a new laptop every 3 to 4 years and pass the old one to family members. My dad is still using one that’s about 10 years old and it works fine for what he needs. No issues. So the r…
Consider that maybe you've just gotten lucky? Laptop components do break. I haven't had Mac laptops in a bunch of years, but just off the top of my head I've had a keyboard key break (MacBook Air), and a mainboard die (MacBook Pro). But if you don't need repairs, you might want upgrades. I have a Framework 13 from 2022 and I expect I won't be buying a full new laptop for many many years. It's great that you've been a…
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#495Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
Humans own inference power efficiency by a much bigger margin
Owning a human is much more problematic, and anyway a human’s peak efficiency might be higher, but humans have to sleep and take breaks so overall probably not.
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's hope software gets enough less bloated to make that workable.
Maybe... While less than perfect, I think even moving to shared browser runtimes like Tauri and similar are a boost over Electron. Not to mention shifting backend work to Rust over JS/TS. There's a lot of performance on the table to gain without even dramatically changing most of the application UI/UX.
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#498I don't like MacOS. Everytime I talk about setting up a custom PC, people say - buy Mac Mini. No. I don't want MacOS. It's soooo slow workflow wise. I was literally behind my manager for 2 whole years to get him to move me from Macbook Air 11 inch to a linux laptop. He was ready to give me Macbook Pro 2016. But not a Linux laptop, in an org which had them. And I went over his head to get a Linux laptop there. The slo…
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For high end AI inference chips, DRAM already goes onto the interposer right next to the GPU to bring the bandwidth as high as possible. The high end AI inference chips use HBM and cost tens of thousands of dollars. HBM uses 1024 data pins instead of 64, which is crazy expensive, which means that to the extent that consumer devices get it at all, it would be in addition to rather than instead of ordinary DRAM, e.g.…
I think the long term trend is typically the high end technology of today will be the mid to low tier technology of the future. If putting 1024 data pins all connected via a nanoscale manufactured silicon interposer right now seems complicated and expensive, that doesn't mean we won't see it in tomorrow's consumer devices. If anything we will be MORE likely to see this one day. Apple and other companies are gradually…
The trend doesn't look like that. The PCI bus from 1992 had 124 pins. PCIe 5.0 x16 has 164 pins; x8 has even fewer pins than the slots from decades ago. Guess how many pins Thunderbolt has. DDR1 DIMMs from the year 2000 had 184 pins; DDR5 has 288. The number of pins goes up very slowly if at all, because it's one of the most expensive ways to increase performance, despite being effective.
Which is why the enterprise hardware has always done it and the consumer hardware hasn't.
> Apple and other companies are gradually working towards moving AI models to be more local which means memory bandwidth has a real killer app use case right now.
The real problem is that ordinary consumers don't want to pay for 128GB of GDDR or HBM, and if they did then you would attach it to the GPU rather than the CPU anyway.
What they might want is the less expensive ordinary DRAM with a wider bus, which is what Apple does, but then you're not using 1024 pins and have no need to solder it instead of using CAMM.
> Witness Liquid AI and their partnership with Mercedes Benz to put 8B param LLM models into vehicles.
8B param models don't need exotic hardware, those run on existing consumer GPUs.
> Both Desktop PCs and the CPU are becoming less and less relevant as we move further in the decade to be honest...
Less relevant to what? Making up for the inefficiency of bad JavaScript with fast hardware? Running the less parallelizable parts of PC games? Databases and other branchy server workloads? They're as relevant as ever to the things they've always been relevant to.
Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve had MacBook Pros for as long as they’ve existed and, honestly, I’ve never needed a repair. The only real issue I’ve had was when I dropped one and destroyed the screen. It was covered by AppleCare, and Apple replaced it. I usually get a new laptop every 3 to 4 years and pass the old one to family members. My dad is still using one that’s about 10 years old and it works fine for what he needs. No issues. So the r…
Consider that maybe you've just gotten lucky? Laptop components do break. I haven't had Mac laptops in a bunch of years, but just off the top of my head I've had a keyboard key break (MacBook Air), and a mainboard die (MacBook Pro). But if you don't need repairs, you might want upgrades. I have a Framework 13 from 2022 and I expect I won't be buying a full new laptop for many many years. It's great that you've been a…
Certainly if you're in the 0.01% of Apple purchasers that just have a terrible experience (broken device, out of warranty, etc) and one of your largest purchases doesn't work the way you want it, then that is terrible.
but I think the vast majority of Apple users have a stellar experience.