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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#401
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had in-class exams at MIT that were up to 3 hours long. Take home would definitely have been nicer.

I only recall some finals at MIT being that long. Which classes had normal exams that long?

This year 6.7800 has a both 3h midterm and a 3h final, for instance. Wish us luck.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want rage bait, read the proceedings of honor code committees at your school. At least at Northwestern they were public record (sometimes with redaction of identities). The number of people who got off with obviously bullshit excuses was maddening even to read about.

reactions -> redactions

Thanks, corrected.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#403

People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

> it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one. We're talking about Princeton , here. Trust among elites remains persistently high. In fact, it's likely higher than ever due to assortative mating & geographic sorting. Elites, even students in the Ivies, still have trust of government and elite institutions, which the elite stratum itself runs. Trust between elites and lower strat…

> Trust among elites remains persistently high

I don't think any human alive believes this. The "elite" are just known as being scammers who lie and BS about everything very openly and they'd sell their own child if it got them a dollar. The past 10 years have been nothing but "elites" churning scams and paying bribes and bragging about it. They most certainly aren't trusting each other. Just look at how the president holds people up as his greatest ally one day, then discards and villainizes them the next day once he realizes he can get more benefit from elsewhere.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is most definitely disputable that it destroy social cohesion. The US was cohesive after WWII, by that point we already had a LOT of non-white people. Also black Americans have been here since the start.

Wrong.

  1950 Census
  ---------------------------------------------
  Race           Percentage of Total Population
  ---------------------------------------------
  White          89.5%
  Black          10.0%
  Other Races    0.5%
Keep in mind the black population was essentially segregated at this point.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the USA a high trust society?

Parts of America still are high trust: https://qctimes.com/entertainment/dining/article_5371e735-53... When Lee Kuan Yew visited London for the first time after World War II, he was impressed by the fact that it had unattended newspaper stands where people were trusted to take a newspaper and leave money: https://youtu.be/b_6H26fpZp8 . As someone from a low trust society, I fully concur with his assessment that this…

These sort of unmanned roadside stands are all over the southern US.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#406

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

"There is no honor among elites"

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the USA a high trust society?

Obviously subjective, but I would argue it was higher before stores began putting the items behind glass/locks.

Sort of, but there's a difference, the rise in anti-shoplifting stuff is in contrast to a decline in things like burglar bars. Stealing from residential property is seen as mostly the domain of drug addicts. Stealing from a multi-national corporation doesn't have the same stigma.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#408
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "Swiss metro"? Curious now.

It's incredibly common all over Europe, not just Switzerland. Not only the metros but the trams and even buses often rely on this system where there's no turnstile or barrier, you just walk in. Not sure it's about being a high trust society or not, there's frequent inspections where they block the doors, and you get a hefty fine if you're caught without a valid ticket. I certainly wouldn't call Prague or Rome or Dubl…

And it is common to cheat, as it is cheaper to pay the fine than to buy a pass annually. Naturally, this is done more by the foreigners I know than the natives. But the foreigners are not Japanese...

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#409
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to this country as an immigrant and one of the first memories I have was walking to the gas station to get the Sunday paper for my host father. I remember opening up the door and seeing tens of Sunday papers and was taken aback thinking how can this be, wouldn't someone just put in a quarter and take ALL of the Sunday papers home with her/him. In today's society (and especially if we are talking Princeton-like…

FWIW, I would expect this behavior more in white collar affluent areas more than the rural areas the GP comment is referring to. Many people get into these positions of affluence by participating in competitions that repeatedly normalize that exact variety of deviance. Honor-anything works when you create and maintain systems that normalize honorable behaviors and shame deviant behaviors (for any definition of honora…

An honor system is a culture, where most people feel shame if they cheat. While some external enforcement is necessary to maintain the system, it mostly relies on everyone policing their own behavior. The more you focus on policing others, the further away you get from an honor system.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually the rule is you can't have a phone out of your pocket or backpack during a test. Students still have phones on them. If they disallowed that too, how would that work, an airport security style check going in?

If NYC schools can do it at scale (1,600 schools this year banned cell phones), Princeton could certainly do it. Students either leave phones at home, or the school provides pouches/mini lockers for each student.

They can't do it at scale, they can only mandate it at scale
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