Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 662 posts

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#271

Post by permalac »

lokar wrote: post #8
john_strinlai wrote: post #5

huh, i had no idea princeton specifically disallowed proctors, and instead relied on an honor system. seems... like a poorly thought out system, especially given: " 29.9 percent of respondents reported that they had cheated on an assignment or exam during their time at Princeton. 44.6 percent of senior respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report. " crazier is the people prote…

AIUI, these schools see their mission as training the next generation of leaders and elites. They aim for people with strong abilities, and moral character. And, the way you guide youth to act in a certain way is by treating them that way. If you want them to be trustworthy, you trust them. This is not a totally fringe idea.

The next generation of leaders know there are no consequences to cheating, that's what I get out of this.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#272

Post by CobrastanJorji »

jiqiren wrote: post #157
twoWhlsGud wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who went there (albeit many decades ago) I can tell you FWIW when I was there folks took it seriously. I literally knew of no one who ever cheated on an exam. And I'm pretty sure that anyone I knew who observed cheating would have taken it seriously enough to bring it to the process. It was pretty much a fixture of how students thought about things. So it worked (near as I could tell) back then. But instit…

I wasn't at Princeton, but I remember blatant cheating going on and 'study groups' in CS classes that were mere passing around of completed code. (1997-2001) I'd asked them what they expected would happen when they tried to get jobs or landed one. Like how do you fake work? They just said all jobs are group-based like their study group. (Keep in mind they were soliciting my code as their group was struggling to find…

When I was at Georgia Tech back around 2002, the freshman Java CS course introduced a brand new and improved cheat detector, and they immediately caught over half of the class for cheating. It was disastrous. The penalty for being caught cheating was so onerous that they simply couldn't do it to the whole class.

To the school's credit, they responded as best they could. They considered each case, interviewed the students, and punished them on a sliding scale based on how much cheating, ranging from a zero on that one assignment up to suspension.

Then, for the next semester, they simply changed the rules. You were now officially allowed to cheat all you wanted on homework, but it now only counted for 5% of your grade. That was REALLY bad for people who weren't doing the homework, but it also sucked for people who were just lousy test takers.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#273

Post by dylan604 »

bozhark wrote: post #246
dylan604 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now students have ChatGPT to write their papers and they've been practicing how to use cell phones without the teacher noticing for 10 years before getting to college. Colleges will need to remodel the rooms where these tests are given to become large SCIF type rooms so that wireless communication is not possible. Let the students go back to writing on their arms, wearing eye patches, or shoving notes up their cast…

Local models exists…

mobile devices are not allowed in a SCIF, so now what?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#274

Post by traderj0e »

yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #72
palata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "Swiss metro"? Curious now.

I assume they are referring to systems like TPG in Geneva. Basically you buy a pass and when you get on an off a bus or street car there is no checking of payment it is just assumed everyone is "honoring" the agreement to pay. Every once and a while transit cops will board and check that everyone has a pass/has paid somehow and if you get caught not paying it can affect your ability to rent housing etc.

"if you get caught not paying it can affect your ability to rent housing etc"

What's a realistic outcome for someone who gets caught, they have to pay more for housing or they become homeless?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#277

Post by traderj0e »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #265
john_strinlai wrote: post #5

huh, i had no idea princeton specifically disallowed proctors, and instead relied on an honor system. seems... like a poorly thought out system, especially given: " 29.9 percent of respondents reported that they had cheated on an assignment or exam during their time at Princeton. 44.6 percent of senior respondents reported knowledge of Honor Code violations that they chose not to report. " crazier is the people prote…

Even more astounding is the reporting number. If 44.6% of students saw an honor code violation and didn't report it, and 0.4% of students saw an honor code violation and did report it, that means that 99.2% of Princeton students that pledge to report honor code violations break that pledge. And that's only counting the voluntary reporters, meaning that the actual rate is presumably even worse! But also, how would rep…

Could just be that about half of them never saw violations

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#278

Post by cucumber3732842 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Combined with the increasing acceptance of shoplifting [1] and unprecedented corruption and criminality among our national leaders, it's hard not to read this as a moral page turning on American culture. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/04/hasan-piker-jia-to...

You ever seen a man over 40 pull a building permit for work wholly within his own home? Yeah me either.

These days college kids are just as jaded. Of course they cheat the instant they think they can get away with it.

The college is there to serve the college, not them and these days the kids know it. Even if everyone cheating degrades the value of the degree there's no guarantee the college won't do that itself if everyone is honest so might as well get away with what you can while you can. Nobody likes this, it's just a rational adaptation to the perceived state of affairs.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#279

Post by traderj0e »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #28
alephnerd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd hope, but humans are humans - even if they attend an Ivy. Some individuals have heady thoughts and morals like you mentioned. Others are using it as a checkbox.

> humans are humans - even if they attend an Ivy I specifically called out two non-Ivy examples. Humans are humans. And one of those capacities is for behaving with honor. The enemy of honor, it turns out, isn't dishonor, but cynicism. (It isn't surprising that the dominant emotion on a Silicon Valley board towards an honor system is scorn.)

I agree about the cynicism thing, I like the idea of an honor code if/when it actually works, but the bad reaction here is because 1/3 of students admitted to cheating.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#280

Post by matthewdgreen »

shimman wrote: post #84
matthewdgreen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us have done something stupid once in our lives. That does not mean we do stupid things all the time, nor does it mean that we didn't learn from the experience. The goal of school is to help immature young adults grow into mature ones.

Okay and they shouldn't cheat? Why do we always side with the better angels of the elites in America when the elites in America are the literal cause of our misery? If they can't handle having a proctor ensuring they aren't cheating, they're free to go to the local community college.

I don't really like to make broad general arguments about "elites". But if we're humoring this argument: I would postulate that the sudden need to police cheating and the more recent bad behavior of our elite adults are probably both symptoms of something deeper. Whatever that is, it should be what makes you angry.
Post reply on HN