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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#311
post #27

I've sat in classes where people at my table genuinely took pictures of the exam while the professor's back was turned (being kind to us and giving us useful information on the board) and uploaded the entire exam to the Gemini app. Cheating is all around disheartening and is now incredibly easy with all the free multi-modal models around. Real active proctoring is needed and devices need to be confiscated during exam…

My son is taking an AP chem class - he's doing really well, super interested in the subject. It's a difficult class, to be sure. Many of his peers are just goofing off and don't understand things. My son regularly tells me about people in his lab group that are cheating off his papers (and, I think, even his test). He tries to cover up answers, but it's not always possible to do.

What is even more frustrating is that the teacher knows this and does nothing about it. Maybe one could argue that, in the end, these students fail to learn and will get their just rewards. But it seems to me that the lack of immediate corrective action (eg, an F on an assignment) is a failing of the system.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my experience (MIT ’06) many of the people most comfortable gaming academics ended up in finance. I've always felt that it was these kind of folks that caused the 2008 financial crisis

Intentionally or negligently caused '08?

Intention is becoming worthless in the disinformation age.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. You see this on the Swiss metro and in small-town vegetable stalls. Unproctored exams force every student to weigh the value of their honor against a better grade. That's a personal moral reckoning that might be worth the entire degree.

That’s just the propaganda they sell during college visits. When I was at Caltech the honor code didn’t inspire any pride, because the only way anyone got through that course load was by “cheating”*. No one had any time for pride (GO BEAVERS!) An honor code is an admission that your curriculum is so sadistic, not even cheating will help. Princeton just isn’t prestigious enough to keep up that charade. * At Caltech th…

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to this country as an immigrant and one of the first memories I have was walking to the gas station to get the Sunday paper for my host father. I remember opening up the door and seeing tens of Sunday papers and was taken aback thinking how can this be, wouldn't someone just put in a quarter and take ALL of the Sunday papers home with her/him. In today's society (and especially if we are talking Princeton-like…

There are places today in the USA where the roadside stands don’t even have a lockbox, just a bowl of money. We specifically don’t tell you where because we’d like to keep it that way.

I think that is not an exception, but is pretty common almost anywhere in the US rural enough to have a roadside stand. Although bowls are not immune to wind, so generally the exact implementation takes that into account. Often a slotted box with no lock, etc.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the USA a high trust society?

You know, back when it was a noble democracy where all men were free, or something.

Being a high trust society isn’t the same thing as being a fully egalitarian society.

Getting to “high trust for the majority” is the 0 to 1 of civilizational development. Most societies never get there—they’re low trust for everyone.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the USA a high trust society?

Right after WW2, trust was way higher. There was a belief in common good and progress and all that.

Something tells me this trust evaporated once the Vietnam War was in full swing and the USA started murdering labor activists in South America.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#320
post #97

I wonder to what extent this is due to the changing roles of university. I would guess 133 years ago university was mostly upper class folks trying to better their minds, and less people wanting a degree to open up a job. Much more incentive to cheat if you just care about the piece of paper at the end.

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