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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#391

Post by [deleted] »

throwup238 wrote: post #59
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. You see this on the Swiss metro and in small-town vegetable stalls. Unproctored exams force every student to weigh the value of their honor against a better grade. That's a personal moral reckoning that might be worth the entire degree.

That’s just the propaganda they sell during college visits. When I was at Caltech the honor code didn’t inspire any pride, because the only way anyone got through that course load was by “cheating”*. No one had any time for pride (GO BEAVERS!) An honor code is an admission that your curriculum is so sadistic, not even cheating will help. Princeton just isn’t prestigious enough to keep up that charade. * At Caltech th…

[deleted]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#392

Post by rayiner »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #383
marsten wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academic integrity committees at prestigious schools are horribly lax. They want these types of issues to go away quietly. I have a friend who in college had another student take his test from the "complete" pile, erase my friend's name, and put on his own instead. It was only through blind luck that my friend figured it out. He, the TA, and the professor reported it – with smoking gun proof – but nothing happened. T…

I went to a school that actually tried to enforce it, and unfortunately it ended up being enforced wildly disproportionately along racial lines. My school had a very simple rule: if you were caught cheating, you were expelled. No strikes, no exceptions. That is a massive burden to put on an educator. Getting expelled from your university is a very serious, mandated fork in the road for anyone it happens to. So what d…

[flagged]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#393

Post by rayiner »

bluegatty wrote: post #352
CSMastermind wrote: post #275

People blame AI but in reality it's more about America transitioning from a high-trust society to a low-trust one.

Maybe a bit that - but it's far more the change of elite 'class' institutions - to elite 'competitive' institutions. 'Grades Did Not Matter' 100 years ago so much. It was where 'the only educated people sent their kids to be educated'. Or maybe the nouveau riche bourgois did. Now it's a 'Giant International Competition'. You can see this where students are competitive with grades elsewhere in the world. They're compe…

That’s a really good point. I do think the old ruling elite was in some ways more honest within the particular framework of their morality. But maybe that was easier when getting into Harvard meant being smart-ish from a prestigious family, instead of grinding to compete against not only everyone in America, but the biggest grinders and geniuses in India and China too.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#394

Post by [deleted] »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #236
mystraline wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people think Luigi Mangione is a hero. Given that UHC started approving lots of procedures and drugs after the assassination shows that their medical insurance mass fraud did happen and paid off... And they quit it. And then they were sued by shareholders for approving said procedures. Boo fucking hoo the shareholders lost a buck. Note that insurance fraud ALWAYS targets the individual policyholder, and NEVER…

What a disgusting take. Leftists such as yourself are beyond the pale. Luigi murdered someone in cold blood. You can civil society like that. Leftists are always going fascists but I don’t they have a problem with fascism. Their only issue is that they want you to be the fascists. How can you not see how a civil society cannot exist if we follow your ideology? It’s fine as long as it happens to people you disagree wi…

[deleted]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#395

Post by FireBeyond »

rayiner wrote: post #392
Forgeties79 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a school that actually tried to enforce it, and unfortunately it ended up being enforced wildly disproportionately along racial lines. My school had a very simple rule: if you were caught cheating, you were expelled. No strikes, no exceptions. That is a massive burden to put on an educator. Getting expelled from your university is a very serious, mandated fork in the road for anyone it happens to. So what d…

[flagged]

What, did racism end with “I have a dream…”?

Public high schools in Georgia were still holding segregated proms no more than 10 years ago.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#396

Post by porknubbins »

rayiner wrote: post #389
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

If you want rage bait, read the proceedings of honor code committees at your school. At least at Northwestern they were public record (sometimes with redaction of identities). The number of people who got off with obviously bullshit excuses was maddening even to read about.

I once was accused and brought before the honor counsel for a really stupid innocent mistake.

Basically it was a history worksheet requiring written paragraph answers and I swapped around answers under the wrong questions so the teacher thought I cheated. It was a careless mistake I made because I had lost the original worksheet and was working off a loose leaf copy in the cafeteria at the last minute but it made it look like I copied someone else’s work.

I don’t known if the committee bought my story or was feeling lenient but I am very thankful for lax prosecution of these cases and think a lot of the value is in scaring people straight.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#397

Post by george916a »

FireBeyond wrote: post #395
rayiner wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What, did racism end with “I have a dream…”? Public high schools in Georgia were still holding segregated proms no more than 10 years ago.

[dead]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#399

Post by chrisweekly »

rayiner wrote: post #389
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

If you want rage bait, read the proceedings of honor code committees at your school. At least at Northwestern they were public record (sometimes with redaction of identities). The number of people who got off with obviously bullshit excuses was maddening even to read about.

reactions -> redactions

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#400

Post by rayiner »

FireBeyond wrote: post #395
rayiner wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What, did racism end with “I have a dream…”? Public high schools in Georgia were still holding segregated proms no more than 10 years ago.

The elimination of personal racism in towns of less than 1,500 people in rural georgia isn’t a prerequisite to be skeptical of the claim that a university, which is subject to tremendous legal scrutiny and liability, is treating people differently based on race with regard to rule enforcement.

Especially so when you’re invoking the specter of racially discriminatory enforcement as a reason against rules that would be highly beneficial for everyone. You can’t invoke unproven allegations of racism to argue against having rules and enforcing them. That’s just a red herring for people who don’t like rules.

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