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PC Engine CPU

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Re: PC Engine CPU

#41

Post by sillywalk »

bartread wrote: post #23
tombert wrote: post #13

I didn't grow up with the PC Engine or TurboGrafx, but I did start getting into it after I got the MiSTer. I find that the unsuccessful [1] consoles are generally pretty bad. The 3DO and the Jaguar and CD-i are mostly pretty crappy, and while it can be fun to play for a novelty and you might even find one or two games that make it worth it, the vast majority of the time there's a reason that people don't seriously re…

I always thought the 3DO was good hardware, for 1993, let down by a high price (especially by 1993 standards) and a poor library of games: there just wasn’t a good incentive to buy the thing. Fast forward a couple of years and the PlayStation and Saturn are both out, more technically capable, cheaper, and with better game libraries. However, I really do think the main thing that killed the 3DO was the price - it was…

> the main thing that killed the 3DO was the price

I believe this was because 3DO didn't make the consoles themselves, they licensed the design to others who made it. The console had to be profitable, rather than be sold at a loss and be subsidized by game sales.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#42

Post by ushimitsudoki »

christkv wrote: post #35
ushimitsudoki wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always assumed NEC designed this CPU, but it turns out Hudson Soft really did create it. Hudson was apparently a legendary company. If you look at their Japanese Wikipedia page, it’s filled with "heroic tales" that almost sound like jokes. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%... The CPU was conceived by Hudson engineers who, despite their success in the NES business, felt they had hit the ha…

I think they tried to sell it to Nintendo at some point.

According to Wikipedia, Hudson originally approached Sharp before pitching the idea to NEC. While Sharp was enthusiastic and agreed that it had great commercial potential, the deal ultimately fell through.

The deal-breaker was Sharp’s deep relationship with Nintendo at the time. Apparently, developing a console with Hudson’s CPU was seen as something that would have jeopardized their partnership with Nintendo.

What Sharp was working on back then was the "C1 NES TV"—basically a NES-integrated television. You could think of it as the NES era's version of the iMac. It has a bit of a comical look that always makes me smile.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%83%9F%E3...

Re: PC Engine CPU

#43

Post by runjake »

snvzz wrote: post #3
nicole_express wrote: post #2

The PC Engine CPU is highly underrated. People like to go "haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" like that makes it a joke, but that clock speed boost on top of the 6502 architecture is a big deal. (The S-CPU on the SNES still has an 8-bit data bus too, so the 16-bit advantage isn't as strong as it seems) The Arcade Card add-on was designed specifically around using the transfer instructions to rapidl…

>"haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" Amusingly, TurboGrafx-16 is a US-specific name, so is the huge shell. In Japan, the console was called PC Engine and was really compact. Later revised as CoreGrafx and CoreGrafx II, both still the same fundamental hardware. I own the later variant. Very solid little box that sips power and produces stable a/v output.

When I was a teenager, I had a hobby of importing Japanese gaming consoles and video games.

I had a PC Engine and a Super Famicom (well before the SNES made it to the US!). They both had cosmetic differences but I thought that the Japanese versions of both would be more attractive to US customers. I'm not sure why they shipped different casings like they did.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#44

Post by cubefox »

tombert wrote: post #13

I didn't grow up with the PC Engine or TurboGrafx, but I did start getting into it after I got the MiSTer. I find that the unsuccessful [1] consoles are generally pretty bad. The 3DO and the Jaguar and CD-i are mostly pretty crappy, and while it can be fun to play for a novelty and you might even find one or two games that make it worth it, the vast majority of the time there's a reason that people don't seriously re…

Maybe they should have sold the TurboGrafx-16 in the US only with the CD add-on already built in, and one or two CD games included to set off the hardware price somewhat. That would have made them stand out versus SNES/Genesis.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#45

Post by classichasclass »

snvzz wrote: post #3
nicole_express wrote: post #2

The PC Engine CPU is highly underrated. People like to go "haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" like that makes it a joke, but that clock speed boost on top of the 6502 architecture is a big deal. (The S-CPU on the SNES still has an 8-bit data bus too, so the 16-bit advantage isn't as strong as it seems) The Arcade Card add-on was designed specifically around using the transfer instructions to rapidl…

>"haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" Amusingly, TurboGrafx-16 is a US-specific name, so is the huge shell. In Japan, the console was called PC Engine and was really compact. Later revised as CoreGrafx and CoreGrafx II, both still the same fundamental hardware. I own the later variant. Very solid little box that sips power and produces stable a/v output.

I've got a TurboExpress. Recapped, it's a great little handheld. Screen is adequate for the era (though I've seen upgrades). My favourite 6502-based handheld is still the Atari Lynx, but this is close.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#46

Post by tombert »

sillywalk wrote: post #41
bartread wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought the 3DO was good hardware, for 1993, let down by a high price (especially by 1993 standards) and a poor library of games: there just wasn’t a good incentive to buy the thing. Fast forward a couple of years and the PlayStation and Saturn are both out, more technically capable, cheaper, and with better game libraries. However, I really do think the main thing that killed the 3DO was the price - it was…

> the main thing that killed the 3DO was the price I believe this was because 3DO didn't make the consoles themselves, they licensed the design to others who made it. The console had to be profitable, rather than be sold at a loss and be subsidized by game sales.

I always wondered if the better approach would have been to have the 3DO company subsidize the development of the consoles in relation to how many games were sold, and maybe in relation to how many of those specific consoles were sold. e.g. if they dedicated half the licensing proceeds to paying back the consoles, and 80% of the 3DO consoles sold were Panasonic, than they'd give 40% of the licensing fees back to Panasonic.

I'm sure there are issues with this kind of scheme, but I think it's possible that by doing that it could have brought the console price down.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#47

Post by tom_ »

christkv wrote: post #34
wk_end wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These sorts of things - sprites and scrolling tilemaps - were pretty standard for consoles of the time. C.f. the NES, Master System, Game Boy... OTOH if you're European, my impression is that micros were more popular in the 80s and early 90s than dedicated game consoles, and I guess those tended to lack robust sprite/scrolling support, and tended to be more frame buffer-y.

Amiga 500 was very popular in Europe which had those things. Framebuffer was definitely true for the Atari ST.

No tilemaps on the Amiga.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#48

Post by pipes »

wileydragonfly wrote: post #38
dfxm12 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amazing Street Fighter II' port didn't even need any add-ons! (Well, aside from the 6 button controller)

If they had just let you remap the controls so you had fierce and round house, the two button controller would have been serviceable. All the ports of that game are good. I’ve compared them side by side (SNES, Genesis, PCE) and they’re frankly all fun. I did have a PCB worked up that lets you convert anything to a PC Engine controller. Can’t give them away!

All ports by capcom are good :) which means all console ports (apart from the sega master system port, which is impressive just not by capcom). The Amiga, spectrum etc etc ports were god awful.

Though apparently the super street fighter port on the Amiga is rather decent.

I'd love to read something in depth about the capcom console ports. The snes, magadrive and pc engine ports all look like some minor miracles! I remember an interview with a snes developer at rare were he said sf2 is the most impressive game on the snes. (Think I read that in retro gamer UK mag in the last decade or so).

Re: PC Engine CPU

#49

Post by pipes »

runjake wrote: post #43
snvzz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" Amusingly, TurboGrafx-16 is a US-specific name, so is the huge shell. In Japan, the console was called PC Engine and was really compact. Later revised as CoreGrafx and CoreGrafx II, both still the same fundamental hardware. I own the later variant. Very solid little box that sips power and produces stable a/v output.

When I was a teenager, I had a hobby of importing Japanese gaming consoles and video games. I had a PC Engine and a Super Famicom (well before the SNES made it to the US!). They both had cosmetic differences but I thought that the Japanese versions of both would be more attractive to US customers. I'm not sure why they shipped different casings like they did.

Presumably you were in the USA? We had grey imports in the UK too, but it was prohibitively expensive. My family was relatively well off, but no way I'd have been able to wangle an expensive import super famicom.

Even worse when the snes did finally arrive we were stuck with pal 50hz squished slow versions, especially noticeable in street fighter 2.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#50

Post by pseudalopex »

LocalH wrote: post #25
mikepurvis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the redesign of the NES shell for the North American market was largely for vanity reasons, wasn't it? Entertainment system instead of computer, grey plastic instead of beige, front loading instead of top, long cartridges that were supposed to look like VCR tapes instead of toys.

N also took the opportunity to remove the lockout chip, since the system came out so late in the lifecycle and they were largely successful at stamping out unlicensed releases. The Japanese version of that redesign also got compatibility with existing SNES Multi-AV cables (at least the composite ones, the AV Famicom didn't output s-video) while the US version was RF-only (and AFAIK is worse for jailbars than any prev…

They described the 1st NES changes from 1st Famicom.
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