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Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#71

Post by maxloh »

panick21_ wrote: post #54
legitster wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yeah. There's a reason other companies don't focus on modularity or repairability. Its not free. We're not the target audience for this thing, but I'm at least happy there's a way people can put their money where their mouth is.

Apple could make a modular device to very close to the same price they do their current laptop. Its much more about size and supply chain then some minor changes in design. Maybe a little bit more extensive, but not more then 5-10%. They don't make it modular because they don't want it to be modular.

Repairability often comes at the cost of size, weight, production cost, or a combination of them.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#72

Post by bigyabai »

endominus wrote: post #29
maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999 Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499 The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once , instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

Repair cost is worth noting too. If your keyboard breaks:

Macbook Pro - You pay for a new topcase assembly

Framework Pro - You pay a new keyboard

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#73

Post by growt »

endominus wrote: post #29
maxloh wrote: post #12

I like their openness on hardware design. They open sourced their design under CC-BY-4.0 (surprisingly no NC!) in hope that it could enable reuse [1]. However, the whole thing is overpriced. Quoting kingsleyopara's comment 4 days ago [2], ...matching specs it comes out as more expensive than the MBP - even worse when you factor in potential discounts/sales which framework doesn't offer. Framework 13 Pro: £2064 (Ultra…

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999 Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499 The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once , instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#74

Post by dijit »

craftkiller wrote: post #68
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I understood right, the AMD chip is more power hungry due to not having the ultra-low-energy cores, and doesn’t support the new USB-4 standard. Benchmarks have to wait until the actual Intel chip is out.

The AMD board support USB4 40gbps in 2 of the 4 expansion slots. 7040: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/expansion-card-functionalit... AI 300: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/expansion-card-functionalit... Pro with AI 300: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/expansion-card-functionalit... The nice part about the Intel board is all 4 ports support usb4/thunderbolt 4 so all 4 ports are completely interchangeable whereas…

Thanks for checking! I am on my phone and I just remembered that the connectivity was somehow less. :)

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#75

Post by negura »

framework advertises themselves as "laptops you own" and "linux-first". but they're misleading you. they're not actually driven by genuine values, but by marketing. unlike the other big manufacturers of linux-first laptops (novacustom, starlabs, system76) framework couldn't be bothered to open-source their firmware. this is despite demand from their own community [0] and the obvious importance it holds in the broader FOSS community (also the reason why they wouldn't be able to get QubesOS certified [1]). they don't deserve all the airtime they're getting

[0] https://community.frame.work/t/responded-coreboot-on-the-fra...

[1] https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/user/hardware/certified-h...

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#76

Post by hexfish »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #3
cassianoleal wrote: post #2

Does anyone know how the Intel and AMD offerings compare? I take it battery life is better on Intel. What about performance for different tasks, such as coding, compiling, etc. What about local LLMs? Do both platforms have "unified memory" à la Apple Silicon? Neither?

Amd versions can not suspend to RAM, I heard.

You mean just suspend as in 'sleep'? Like closing the lid on a macbook. I am doing that with the regular framework 13 (same amd though) multiple times a day.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#77

Post by bigyabai »

negura wrote: post #75

framework advertises themselves as "laptops you own" and "linux-first". but they're misleading you. they're not actually driven by genuine values, but by marketing. unlike the other big manufacturers of linux-first laptops (novacustom, starlabs, system76) framework couldn't be bothered to open-source their firmware. this is despite demand from their own community [0] and the obvious importance it holds in the broader…

Supporting Coreboot is not easy, or "free" with newer chipsets. It makes sense that this takes a while to implement and I'm grateful that Framework doesn't neuter their chipset selection to only represent Coreboot-supported boards.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#78

Post by kristopolous »

dijit wrote: post #57
kristopolous wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't matter. If I'm looking at the framework or the Thinkpad or anything else I've said "no thanks" to Apple laptops This is my starting point. I've already turned the Mac down. It's like turning down a very specific slice of cake and then being offered the same kind of cake from different vendors when really you just want a salad

Why? If for software: thats the point. If for hardware (because its not serviceable): then thats what the framework is fixing. It is no secret that Apple hardware is superior right now. If you don’t like that as a fact then convince Dell/HP/Lenovo to do better. It is a valid north star for Framework in the current ecosystem to differentiate but chase the best in market. — Also, your comments are devoid of things that…

It's not that, it's the follower product insistence. I've got a strong universal distaste for it.

Let's take an industry where there isn't any: showers. You go to a hotel or an Airbnb and you can't figure out how to turn on the shower. They're all so different

This is actually great. People are being very innovative and creative. That's human flourishing and ingenuity.

You go to the electronics store and all the laptops look the same with different logos on the back.

It's suffocating

I'm looking for creative diversity. It's a different set of values

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#79

Post by skullone »

negura wrote: post #75

framework advertises themselves as "laptops you own" and "linux-first". but they're misleading you. they're not actually driven by genuine values, but by marketing. unlike the other big manufacturers of linux-first laptops (novacustom, starlabs, system76) framework couldn't be bothered to open-source their firmware. this is despite demand from their own community [0] and the obvious importance it holds in the broader…

Don't think that's a fair assessment. They set forth to build modular, repairable laptops you could get parts from 3rd parties with design files available to 3d print or manufacture. They are sticking by those goals. They've expressed interest in open sourcing their firmware or supporting coreboot but that's very much a stretch goal and would take a team of lawyers and a lot of money to suss out

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro: Major Upgrades and Linux Front and Center

#80

Post by loloquwowndueo »

growt wrote: post #73
endominus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999 Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499 The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once , instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

Well you can sell your old MacBook. And they hold their value pretty well. So I don’t know if framework would actually come out ahead financially.

What’s the advantage of buying a used MacBook if, since they hold their value well, it won’t be much cheaper than a new one?
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