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AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

theguardian.com

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#201

Post by nailer »

nahuel0x wrote: post #164
YZF wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out this example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjw4egp7lwno "As we pass through Khan Shaykhun, we come across a street painted in the colours of the Iranian flag. It leads to a school building that was being used as an Iranian headquarters." "On the wall at the entrance of the toilets, slogans read: "Down with Israel" and "Down with the USA". It was evident that these headquarters were also evacuated at sh…

I think nobody with a couple of neurons still buys the "every school and hospital in Gaza were Hamas, so we bombed them" nazi-zionist rhetoric.

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#202

Post by mrguyorama »

WarmWash wrote: post #144
lljk_kennedy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source for it being a "trap"? Got some evidence to share?

There is no source, that's why I said borderline. It's that its so painfully negligent that it almost must be malice.

Uh no, the onus is always on the one doing the attack FFS what's wrong with you?

You are bending over backwards to shift the blame away from an administration that was utterly negligent and reckless and caused an obvious and expected outcome of having "No rules of engagement"

You don't get to blow up a school and say "But a decade ago it was part of the military base!". That's Russia's SOP

It's stupid, lazy, unacceptable, and indefensible in a war of choice. This administration had years to vet targets, and instead eschewed all preparation and fired the people who had been working on preparation.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#203

Post by Dylan16807 »

sebastiennight wrote: post #152
Dylan16807 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some children being killed is an inevitable part of war. Do you agree with the statement "No war has ever been worth the results."? If yes, then okay end of conversation. But if not then we need to talk about acceptable mistake rates and where this falls, because zero mistakes is not possible. Note that I am not defending the strike here, I'm saying that the criticism needs more depth.

Would you mind sharing a handful of examples where, from your perspective, a war was worth its results?

I guess I'd start with most colonial freedom wars.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#204

Post by plorg »

Did anyone seriously believe this was the AI's fault? The modern military use of LLMs is very clearly for the purpose of creating vaguely plausible targets while distancing any person from the decision to murder people. Surely if we cared at all about accomplishing a strategic goal we would have had a set of well documented targets ready to go. Instead the goal seems to be to drop as many bombs as possible, hope the computer's good enough that they mostly hit people who have relevance to things we don't like, and loudly proclaim that it's more important to kill people than it is to have any goal at all.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#205

Post by jvanderbot »

sirfz wrote: post #200
jvanderbot wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will try to respond to all these independent threads, but we can't continue all of them at once. > . “These aren’t just nameless, faceless targets,” he said later. “This is a place where people are going to feel ramifications for a long time.” The targeting cycle had been fast enough to hit 50 buildings and too fast to discover it was hitting the wrong ones. > The air force’s own targeting guide, in effect during t…

It's incredible, after all the grotesque stories about rape, torture and murder of children, men and women during the Iraq war, active support of genocide (and 10s of thousands of children murdered by Israel, on purpose), prisoners rape and child imprisonment, a "secretary of war" and president publicly admiting to war crimes and saying things like "negotiate with bombs" you still "refuse to believe" that anyone in d…

our views of the world are probably irreconcilable, and I don't think your comment was written to try to fix that.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#206

Post by xrd »

jvanderbot wrote: post #115
Denzel wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I read the entire TFA, where do you see “quotes [from] those in the know who believe this should have been eliminated as a target”? I saw no such quotes about the school in TFA. Maybe I missed it. > there was precisely one mis-strike in 1000s of sorties How did you verify this? Because I’ll remind you, the U.S. administration denied responsibility for some time before owning up to this due to public pressure. Abse…

I will try to respond to all these independent threads, but we can't continue all of them at once. > . “These aren’t just nameless, faceless targets,” he said later. “This is a place where people are going to feel ramifications for a long time.” The targeting cycle had been fast enough to hit 50 buildings and too fast to discover it was hitting the wrong ones. > The air force’s own targeting guide, in effect during t…

"it is unfortunately understandable how it happened in this situation."

I think you and I disagree on what the situation is here. I don't think it was necessary to bomb Iran and it feels like you are saying we did.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#207

Post by csmpltn »

nahuel0x wrote: post #164
YZF wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out this example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjw4egp7lwno "As we pass through Khan Shaykhun, we come across a street painted in the colours of the Iranian flag. It leads to a school building that was being used as an Iranian headquarters." "On the wall at the entrance of the toilets, slogans read: "Down with Israel" and "Down with the USA". It was evident that these headquarters were also evacuated at sh…

I think nobody with a couple of neurons still buys the "every school and hospital in Gaza were Hamas, so we bombed them" nazi-zionist rhetoric.

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#208

Post by WarmWash »

yosamino wrote: post #174
WarmWash wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are correct. Military bases even have schools and kids! But do you know what else the US does? The locations of military and non-military buildings is public information, and even intentionally made obvious to anyone. You can get maps of the bases from their websites. You can even go on google maps and see what most of the buildings are. To avoid exactly this situation. And even beyond all that, in the event…

Are you trying to tell me that you believe that the Iranians were under the impression that this school was a secret that the United States did not know about ? This the the school's website https://web.archive.org/web/20250912011638/https://shajaresc... Do you believe that these military buildings were a secret that the Iranians thought the US and Israel don't know about ? > (Legitimate) countries at war aren't tryi…

You don't seem aware that Japan armed and trained it's population (Kokumin Giyū Sentōtai), men and women including kids, and mandated them to attack invaders. Another example of deranged theocratic dictatorship. The US doing a land invasion would have almost certainly resulted in far more "civilian" deaths.

Also the Geneva conventions don't apply when fighting an enemy who doesn't abide by them. Its incredibly annoying to fight an enemy that has no problem using ambulances as troop and weapon transports. Or an enemy that refuses to issue uniforms to it's fighters. This isn't even necessarily referring to Israel and Hamas, it was rampant with al qaeda and ISIS.

As for China invading the US? Well Ukraine has managed to keep it above board. It's only these shit head theocratic lunatics that have no problem shoveling civilians into the fire to keep their ass in power. Maybe you aren't aware, but Hamas consoles it's civilians by telling them they are dying for God. Just like Japan trained it's civilians during WWII to die for God (who happened to be the emperor.)

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#209

Post by Hikikomori »

YZF wrote: post #61
beloch wrote: post #23

"Three clicks convert a data point on the map into a formal detection and move it into a targeting pipeline. These targets then move through columns representing different decision-making processes and rules of engagement. The system recommends how to strike each target – which aircraft, drone or missile to use, which weapon to pair with it – what the military calls a “course of action”. The officer selects from the…

I couldn't find a web site for the school when I searched for one and I also noticed that while schools are generally marked on Google Maps in Iran this school was not. Both are IMO not really relevant or reliable sources of targeting data anyways. I found very little evidence searching online for the school but I did find something that looked like a blog about a school trip. Again though the Internet is not a relia…

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#210

Post by basisword »

Not sure how you could live with yourself if you were building software that was used to kill children. I know tools can be used in ways you can't anticipate but if you're actively supporting the military in their use of it which in my eyes makes you responsible.
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