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AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

theguardian.com

171–180 of 427 posts

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#171
A similar situation happened a few weeks ago when the US/Israel started targeting Iranian police facilities. They bombed a public park in Tehran called "Police Park" because it has the name "Police" in it. It's a normal park.

https://x.com/clashreport/status/2029574288253026510 https://x.com/tparsi/status/2029555364262228454

If you asked AI to "list the top 100 police facilities in Tehran", this location would appear on the list. It's clear they're using AI to pick targets.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#172
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will try to respond to all these independent threads, but we can't continue all of them at once. > . “These aren’t just nameless, faceless targets,” he said later. “This is a place where people are going to feel ramifications for a long time.” The targeting cycle had been fast enough to hit 50 buildings and too fast to discover it was hitting the wrong ones. > The air force’s own targeting guide, in effect during t…

> I refuse to believe anyone in the decision chain would move forward if they believed kids were going to be killed. If you do - how can you? Why would they? Because they’re openly callous and contemptful of anyone they don’t consider a heritage American? Because the admin has already abused children to lure out parents in their anti immigrant push? And that’s before getting into the Epstein file allegations and if h…

Nobody deliberately produces propaganda for their enemies. The people involved may be evil and stupid, but nobody is that evil and stupid.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#173
I blame everything on the air force AOC concept and the joint targeting cycle. They are, at their core, an attempt to manage every aspect of a war from one room. It 'works' in peace time when you have exactly 3 real decisions to make a day and a staff of hundreds to orchestrate it but in war it is completely unresponsive, blind because all information comes through the telephone game and bought 100% into the idea that 'if all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail' problem. We have bombs. Let's bomb them. This is why we loose wars.

Our operational level of war is junk. We have forgotten how to create a task force that has has a clear mission with a clear duration, resources, battlespace, ROE and, most importantly, authority to act. McChrystal 'rediscovered' empowering small teams that every flag officer rediscovers eventually in war. If your supporting the commander's cycle means enabling them to make all the decisions then you have just decided to loose the war. They can't make all the decisions. They need to expand that decision making power. That is their job. Build teams that have the authority and resources. Let those teams, if needed, also build teams if the problem is too big. Most importantly though, let those teams act. If you can't trust those commanders to make decisions and act on them then you shouldn't have put them in the job. Divide and conquer is the only solution here and the JTS/AOC model of warfare is the antithesis of this.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just gonna assume you are an American, just because this is a website who's audience is in large part American. But I might be wrong. Anyway, as such you must at least in passing be familiar with the concept of a "military base" as it is practiced by American society. > Everything that the average family needs is there; a grocery store, shopping mall, bank, post office, theatre, religious centers, outdoor activit…

Yes, you are correct. Military bases even have schools and kids! But do you know what else the US does? The locations of military and non-military buildings is public information, and even intentionally made obvious to anyone. You can get maps of the bases from their websites. You can even go on google maps and see what most of the buildings are. To avoid exactly this situation. And even beyond all that, in the event…

Are you trying to tell me that you believe that the Iranians were under the impression that this school was a secret that the United States did not know about ?

This the the school's website https://web.archive.org/web/20250912011638/https://shajaresc...

Do you believe that these military buildings were a secret that the Iranians thought the US and Israel don't know about ?

> (Legitimate) countries at war aren't trying to massacre civilians.

You think Israel is not a legitimate country? Cause that just very openly happened and continues to happen.

And maybe you think that killing civilians is not the point, which I don't agree with but I can at least understand why one would come to that conclusion.

But you must at least remember that the US is kind of famous for Hiroshima and Nagasaki - an action based almost in it's entirety on killing civilians.

But even if you want to only defend that "legitimate" countries aren't trying to massacre civilians, you must be able to see that the threshold of killing them if they just happen to be in the way is very low.

The Secretary of Defense of the US recently called for removal of all these rules you alluded to

> We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement.

https://www.war.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/4318...

Look at what is happening even with this lose framework you are referring to in place. Do you think if China invaded the US, the US would not do everything it takes to defeat them, even if it means giving up conventional warfare. You think the US forces would give up a strategic advantage that could be gained by taking off their uniform and continue fighting without it ?

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you do - how can you? Why would they? I can't answer why they would do it, but I don't think it's unusual for these people to knowingly strike civilian targets that they believe will have children present. In the famous Pete Hegseth leaked Signal chat, they were discussing bombing a residential apartment building in the middle of the night because they thought a single target was there visiting his girlfriend. O…

No evidence has shown up suggesting there was some sort of compelling target in the school. As foul as Trump and Hegseth may be, they aren't cartoon character villains. The Occam's razor explanation is that this was an intelligence failure and a tragic mistake.

It is possible that two things are true

1. this was an intelligence failure and a tragic mistake.

2. Trump and Hegseth are (like) cartoon character villains.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#176
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend looking closely at the New York Times analysis. There were factors that might have mitigated this as a strike target, but it also really did look like a part of the compound (and it originally was!). Yes, with hindsight, we can definitively know, and with sufficient time each target could probably have been positively ID'd, but there was precisely one mis-strike in 1000s of sorties, so this already is a l…

How many American schoolchildren have Iran killed in the last 25 years? How many Iranian schoolchildren have America killed? Where's your moral justification for this war of choice if "oops, 137 dead kids is a normal expected outcome"?

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#177
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many American schoolchildren have Iran killed in the last 25 years? How many Iranian schoolchildren have America killed? Where's your moral justification for this war of choice if "oops, 137 dead kids is a normal expected outcome"?

Please ask yourself if there is true evil in the world. People who are willing to kill children on purpose , or maim them, or burn them with acid, or commit other bad things I wont get into. Then ask yourself if bad things can happen despite good intents. Truly horrible things, in fact, despite effort to prevent them. Then, ask if this bombing was part of group A or group B. And ask if we were trying to target people…

Group A also include starting a war for bad reasons and then "accidentally" killing school children as a result.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like an intellectual god to have been gifted the brain power to recognize that 150 kids being killed is a awful tragedy, and that converting a building on a military base to a school is recklessly stupid and borderline purposely done as a trap. It's like letting your child play in the road at night, and then being upset when a drunk driver hits them. Anyone can look at the satellite images from the bombing and…

There are schools on military bases all over the world. Here's one at Joint Base Andrews: https://maps.app.goo.gl/iMm4QSZJYAaLLSLh9 Are the children in that school a legitimate military target? Is putting that school on Joint Base Andrews "recklessly stupid?" Why is it perfectly fine for the United States to do this but "recklessly stupid" for Iran to do it?

Because the US military publishes maps of the base. Anyone who bombs a school on a US military base is doing it intentionally. China could probably call up the DoD and ask for maps of every base, and they would get it.

If your force your enemy to decide what is and isn't a civilian target, you are the deranged one.

Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#179
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many American schoolchildren have Iran killed in the last 25 years? How many Iranian schoolchildren have America killed? Where's your moral justification for this war of choice if "oops, 137 dead kids is a normal expected outcome"?

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Re: AI got the blame for the Iran school bombing. The truth is more worrying

#180

Had Iran done anything to the US as heinous as this one "mistake" in the last 50 years that compares? Imagine if some country did this to us and just brushed it off as a mistake.

Yes. They funded Hamas' invasion of Israel, a close ally of the US, which intentionally killed over 1000 civilians. They have also repeatedly threatened to use nuclear weapons on Israel and were in the process of developing such weapons.

>> has A attacked B?

> Yes, C attacked D

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