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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

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Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#281

Post by rglullis »

technothrasher wrote: post #265
rglullis wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything in your responses that even remotely contradict or relate to what I said. Are you just looking for an argument here?

It seems like you are making a different point than the other posters. If the majority of a group does not follow an etiquette standard, it is reasonable to say that the group does not hold that standard. Your point that if any group holds an etiquette standard, then that standard exists is true, but is more tangential to the other point that a rebuttal of it.

> Your point that if any group holds an etiquette standard...

Not quite. My original comment was in response to "I see people violating rule X anywhere, even though I was told it was 'wrong'".

All I am saying is one shouldn't be basing their behavior solely on what they see others "getting away with".

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#282

Post by wojciii »

masfuerte wrote: post #268
technothrasher wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother-in-law always used to get annoyed at me for using my knife and fork in the European manor instead of the American way. She said it was boorish. I don't know anybody else here in the US who cares in the least which way you use your knife and fork, so I always interpreted it left over behavior from her upper class DC upbringing in the 1930-40's. (I did try to explain to her that it was more related to my bein…

By American way do you mean cutting the food then transferring the fork to your right hand for eating? Or is there some other distinction?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ctrOZIJni8Q

This explains the difference. The European method seems the most optimal.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#283

Post by bee_rider »

rglullis wrote: post #181
scheme271 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the deeper question is whose standards and why should we consider them the standard?

That's the thing with standards: there are so many of them to choose from. You don't have to follow them, but you do you should be ready to accept the consequences of your choice.

There are lots of standards, but some contradict one-another.

In the area I grew up in, caring too much about useless aesthetic stuff like “elbows on the table” would have a social cost.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#284

Post by madaxe_again »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #244
AdamN wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of them of course are invented whole cloth. British Received Pronunciation was invented and needs to be learned and is the standard of the upper class. It's neither right nor wrong but it's there to differentiate.

RP isn't really a thing any more, except among some of the older aristocracy and Tories and a few legacy BBC Radio shows. Most people have settled into Estuary, which has split into a high/corporate/media Estuary-tinged dialect, and low street Estuary. The BBC has its own special neutral version. Fifty years ago the difference between upper class/BBC/RP and street English was almost hilariously obvious. Watch a BBC s…

Idk. I’m in my early 40s, not a Tory, not aristocracy, and I speak with RP, as do many others I know. Maybe a product of schooling, but I wouldn’t say it’s dead.

In media, you’re quite correct - it has become rare bar presenters who are now in their 80s or older.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#285

Post by bee_rider »

20k wrote: post #279
chasil wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

Its always extremely funny reading wikipedia articles about a countries customs. For the UK: >Bread is always served and can be placed on the table cloth itself This is extremely rare, to the point where I can't remember the last time I saw it. Is bread really.. always served? > In the United Kingdom, the fork tines face upward while sitting on the table. Tines down isn't uncommon in the UK either >if a knife is not…

I suspect people who are motivated enough to contribute to the Wikipedia article are a bit over-interested in memorizing social rules.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#286

Post by rayiner »

osti wrote: post #154
rayiner wrote: post #122

I love how they have words for the different kinds of rule breaking. Truly civilized people.

More like oppressed people by all those bs rules.

The only thing being “oppressed” are people’s animal instincts to be disorderly.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#287

Post by manarth »

0x3f wrote: post #271
manarth wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were eating a stereotypical British meal – say: meat, potatoes, and peas – I would use the fork as a "shovel" for the peas: guide the peas onto the fork with a knife, then raise and eat from the fork. I wouldn't switch from a fork to a spoon to eat the peas. Other vegetables are available. I'm not judging .

> I would use the fork as a "shovel" for the peas Well I don't personally mind, but this would be seen as poor form in the sense of the original article. You're 'supposed' to kind of spear them onto the end of the tines using the knife. Also, with the scoop method, if the peas are hard enough, I would think they're at great risk of rolling around and off the fork. If I were going scoop style, I'd have to mash or at l…

    > "No wonder robotics is hard"
Imagine the furore when AGI realises humans frown on it for its table-manners! :-D

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#288

Post by t-3 »

ghaff wrote: post #216
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.

I’m not even sure what the technical etiquite is. As a right handed American it just seems more natural to have my knife in my right hand but if I’m just using a fork I tend to switch that to my right hand. Didn’t even think about it until right now.

I've always just done the cutting at the beginning of the meal then set the knife to the side. All of the etiquette patterns I've heard about seem wrong to me compared to just cut first and then put the knife down.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#290

Post by maxerickson »

dxdm wrote: post #205
maxerickson wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I was talking about the people that don't know about the culture you guys say they are part of.

For some reason, you're reading things into the original statement that are not there. "An etiquette exists in a culture" does not mean everyone has to follow or even be aware of it.

I would say I'm accurately reading "Western culture" as a nonsensical concept.

Add an s and it gets a little better.

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