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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

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Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#271

Post by 0x3f »

manarth wrote: post #256
0x3f wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not supposed to use the fork like a shovel, is the thing. The tines are to skewer the food, which is why tines-down makes sense. Otherwise, why not a spoon? Also, the at-distance interaction between two tools requires much more dexterity than making your hand meet your mouth. The latter you should be able to do with your eyes closed.

If I were eating a stereotypical British meal – say: meat, potatoes, and peas – I would use the fork as a "shovel" for the peas: guide the peas onto the fork with a knife, then raise and eat from the fork. I wouldn't switch from a fork to a spoon to eat the peas. Other vegetables are available. I'm not judging .

> I would use the fork as a "shovel" for the peas

Well I don't personally mind, but this would be seen as poor form in the sense of the original article. You're 'supposed' to kind of spear them onto the end of the tines using the knife.

Also, with the scoop method, if the peas are hard enough, I would think they're at great risk of rolling around and off the fork. If I were going scoop style, I'd have to mash or at least flatten them a little first to prevent this.

No wonder robotics is hard.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#272

Post by jacquesm »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #98
chasil wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.

But can you pronounce 'Scheveningen'?

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#273

Post by jacquesm »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #251
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> invented this shit to kill the time This is unnecessarily flippant, trivializing, and reductive. The upper classes had the time and position to refine manners. I think one mistake people make is to think manners are arbitrary nonsense. But manners, when fitting, honor the self and others with conduct that suits the dignity of the human person and functions as a sign of that dignity. You cannot tell me that a man hu…

One of the true markers of being upper class is that you can get away with literal atrocities (see Epstein and co) as long as you're discrete enough and/or polished enough when talking to underlings and wannabes. The upper classes in the UK regularly practice tone policing, where legitimate dissent is waved away as uncouth, even though what they say and do is far worse in private, and sometimes in public. If you're l…

Exactly. The Royal formerly known as Prince Andrew for sure knew how to use his fork properly.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#274

Post by jacquesm »

rvba wrote: post #252
jech wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan > I'm interested in learning more about this! It's very simple, actually. For strangers, you use the third person and the title « Pan » or « Pani » (Sir or Lady). You avoid pronouns, « The Lady has forgotten the Lady's purse on the table ». For friends, you use the t-form ("ty", thou), and use a diminutive rather than the full name. « Johny, you've f…

Calling someone Sir or Madam also exists in English and is nothing special. You left out most of the interesting things. For example the vocative case is partially dissapearing. Someone from Finland can actually understand this topic, since Finnish has multiple cases - more than in Polish language (meanwhile English has one case and if we try very hard we can squeeze something similar to a case - so let's say it has…

In English you can use 'sir' as an insult, which is quite creative.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#276

Post by ghaff »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #240

Fairly much common sense advice, with some cultural taboos like resting chopsticks pointing to the right. I have always been a little embarrassed by my own use of chopsticks. When I was three or four years old a waitress in a Chinese restaurant helped me figure out a way to hold them that worked for me. Long story short, I am in my 70s and I have very effectively been getting food efficiently into my mouth with chops…

The chopstick against the knuckle doesn’t work for me I use the fingertip.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#277

Post by bloomingeek »

masfuerte wrote: post #268
technothrasher wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother-in-law always used to get annoyed at me for using my knife and fork in the European manor instead of the American way. She said it was boorish. I don't know anybody else here in the US who cares in the least which way you use your knife and fork, so I always interpreted it left over behavior from her upper class DC upbringing in the 1930-40's. (I did try to explain to her that it was more related to my bein…

By American way do you mean cutting the food then transferring the fork to your right hand for eating? Or is there some other distinction?

Just guessing here, I'm left handed also. I don't trust myself to cut a piece of steak using the knife in my right hand. So, after cutting with my left hand, I put the knife down and use my left for forking.

Or, it could be what my English son-in-law does, he uses his fork and knife, in different hands to aid in pushing food onto his fork. (He's right handed, not that it matters in this case.)

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#278

Post by madaxe_again »

masfuerte wrote: post #268
technothrasher wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother-in-law always used to get annoyed at me for using my knife and fork in the European manor instead of the American way. She said it was boorish. I don't know anybody else here in the US who cares in the least which way you use your knife and fork, so I always interpreted it left over behavior from her upper class DC upbringing in the 1930-40's. (I did try to explain to her that it was more related to my bein…

By American way do you mean cutting the food then transferring the fork to your right hand for eating? Or is there some other distinction?

That and you hold them in your fists or like a pen, rather than the European manner of holding cutlery.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#279

Post by 20k »

chasil wrote: post #97
pndy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's equally complex dining and utensils etiquette in Western culture but it's largely omitted (or even unknown) on daily basis.

There is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

Its always extremely funny reading wikipedia articles about a countries customs. For the UK:

>Bread is always served and can be placed on the table cloth itself

This is extremely rare, to the point where I can't remember the last time I saw it. Is bread really.. always served?

> In the United Kingdom, the fork tines face upward while sitting on the table.

Tines down isn't uncommon in the UK either

>if a knife is not needed – such as when eating pasta – the fork can be held in the right hand

I mean it can be, but its fairly uncommon

>it is permissible to place a small piece of bread at the end of the fork for dipping

Its also 100% fine to dip bread in a sauce with your fingers. Putting bread on a fork if you've licked the fork and then dipping the bread would cause everyone to hate you, so *don't do this*

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#280

Post by f1shy »

rglullis wrote: post #198
rkomorn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to manners, I'd say seeing enough people fail to meet a standard means it's not a standard, at least.

No, that's argumentum ad populum. Mind you, I'm not saying that standards must be followed. I am just saying the same thing I tell my kids: - the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them - the reason rules and standards came to existence might or might not be applicable to our current context, but some people will expect you to follow them regardless. - If a rule or standard seems silly…

This is just great way to put it and explain.
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