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Astral to Join OpenAI

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Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#421

Post by 1718627440 »

QuantumNomad_ wrote: post #329
1718627440 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want software on my computer, that just downloads and installs random stuff. This is the job of the OS in particular the package manager.

What’s the point of constraining oneself to what is in the OS package manager? I like to keep my dependencies up to date. The versions in the OS package manager are much older. And let’s say you constrain yourself to your OS package manager. What about the people on different distros? Their package managers are unlikely to have the exact same versions of your deps that your OS has.

> What’s the point of constraining oneself to what is in the OS package manager? I like to keep my dependencies up to date. The versions in the OS package manager are much older.

I favor stability and the stripping of unwanted features (e.g. telemetry) by my OS vendor over cutting edge software. If I really need that I install it into /usr/local, that it what this is for after all.

> And let’s say you constrain yourself to your OS package manager. What about the people on different distros? Their package managers are unlikely to have the exact same versions of your deps that your OS has.

This is a reason to select the OS. Software shouldn't require exact versions, but should stick to stable interfaces.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#422

Post by tomrod »

FuckButtons wrote: post #418
rob wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a tiny project with over 100 million downloads every month, over 4 million every day. No big deal. Just a small shop, don't overstate its importance. https://pypistats.org/packages/uv

Sure, but if tomorrow uv and ruff ceased to exist, we could all go back to any number of other solutions.

Maybe you could. I would stare longingly into the void, wondering if I can ever work another python project after having experienced uv, ruff, and ty.

Such an outcome would make me wonder regarding the wisdom of "It is better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all."

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#423

Post by worldsayshi »

palmotea wrote: post #211
volkercraig wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not any different from the launch of the FSF. There's a simple solution. If you don't want your lunch eaten by a private equity firm, make sure whatever tool you use is GPL licensed.

> If you don't want your lunch eaten by a private equity firm, make sure whatever tool you use is GPL licensed. 1. For the record: the GPL is entirely dependent on copyright. 2. If AI "clean-room" re-implementations are allow to bypass copyright/licenses, the GPL won't protect you.

If clean-room re-implementations are allowed to bypass copyright/licenses (software) copyright is dead in general?

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#424

Post by druml »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #404
rob wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a tiny project with over 100 million downloads every month, over 4 million every day. No big deal. Just a small shop, don't overstate its importance. https://pypistats.org/packages/uv

The “requests” package gets downloaded one billion times every month, should that be a multi billion dollar VC company as well? It’s a package manager and other neat tooling, it’s great but it’s hardly the essence of what makes Python awesome, it’s one of the many things that makes this ecosystem flourish. If OpenAI would enshittify it people would just fork or move on, that’s all I’m saying, it’s not in any way a si…

> the essence of what makes Python awesome

This is not the point of uv or any good package manager. The point is what prevents Python to suck. For a long time package management had been horrible in Python compared what you could see in other languages.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#425

Post by tomrod »

shawnwall wrote: post #243
pm90 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anecdotally every place ive worked at has switched over and never looked back.

been in the python game a long time and i've seen so many tools in this space come and go over the years. i still rely on good ol pip and have had no issues. that said, we utilize mypy and ruff, and have moved to pyproject etc to remotely keep up with the times.

Geospatial tends to be the Achilles heel for python projects for me. Fiona is a wiley beast of a package, and GDAL too. Conda helped some but was always so slow. Pip almost uniformly fails in this area for me.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#426

Post by croes »

So no problem in joining OpenAI after the whole DoD/DoW mess?

> I started Astral to make programming more productive.

And now they help make killing more productive

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#427

Post by tomrod »

pdntspa wrote: post #402
jitl wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uv solved it, it will be the only tool people use in 2 more years. if you’re a python shop / expert then you can do pip etc but uv turned incidental python + deps from a huge PITA for the rest of us, to It Just Works simplicity on the same level or better than Golang.

Then can they please figure out some way of invoking it that doesnt require prefixing everything with 'uv'

alias in ~/.zshrc?

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#428

Post by applfanboysbgon »

wiseowise wrote: post #413
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "then what" is that their model uses it. Technically superior software loses to popular software on marketing. But LLM owners have the ultimate marketing tool, because they can make their model use the tool. Anyone who asks how to do X in Python gets recommended "OpenAI-Python-Tool-For-X". Anyone who asks Codex to do X, Codex automatically installs "OpenAI-Tool-For-X". It would be very easy for them to launch eve…

This comment section is the evidence that your strategy won’t work. Why fight against community if you can buy it? Or you seriously think this is some ideological war where they need to prove that their offering is so good by reinventing all of software? Why won’t you stretch it further? They should’ve written their browser, their OS and their mobile phones instead of offering ChaGPT on existing ones.

> where they need to prove that their offering is so good by reinventing all of software?

They could start by inventing any software with their agents. They probably should prove their offering is good enough to do that considering they're hundreds of billions of dollars in debt, owing truckloads of money they currently have no hope of repaying to investors who are being promised a literal revolution.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#429

Post by krick »

fortuitous-frog wrote: post #299

While I -- like most other commenters -- am dubious of both OpenAI and this acquisition, I think it's pretty reasonable to wait to see how this turns out before rushing to final judgment. Everything I've seen from Astral and Charlie indicates they're brilliant, caring, and overall reasonable folks. I think it's unfair to jump to call them sell-outs and cast uv and the rest as doomed projects.

Sure, I don't think anybody disagrees, I sure don't. You never know, and all. It's just that we (the imaginary crowd you are arguing with) are not hopeful. And your "but wait, guys, I think they are good people!" is some quite pitiful attempt to console us. Sure, good, brilliant and caring, that's why we are upset in the first place. Always more sad when it's somebody you liked that dies.

And framing it as "sell-outs" is cheap rhetoric that means nothing. The fact is, they were the company who never really had a solid business model, but provide a lot of value for the community. Being acquired by some infinite-money company was always the best outcome they could hope for. Well, they did. Probably got a ton of money. Will it require some sacrifice? Well, some people would say that working for a company who makes products for the Department of War of the USA on conditions that even Anthropic found too ugly to satisfy, is enough of a sacrifice on its own. I am pretty sure though that most people would be willing to make this sacrifice for the right amount of money (with "right amount" being a variable part). So calling someone a sell-out is usually just bitterness about the fact that it wasn't you who managed to sell out. I mean, not judging someone for a sacrifice they make isn't the same thing as pretending they didn't make a sacrifice. Sometimes we (the world, they were trying to make better) are a sacrifice. That's all.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#430

Post by Bnjoroge »

incognito124 wrote: post #333
Bnjoroge wrote: post #203

This was pretty obvious to just about anyone tbh. FastAPI is probably next

I thought some more about it, and unfortunately it makes sense. IIRC there were several "insider" blogposts from OpenAI that said something along the lines of "Yeah almost every service we write is FastAPI"

yeah and I wouldnt be surprised if some oltp database platform is in the horizon as well. iirc they already acquired rockset. The eventual goal for these AI platforms is to own the entire e2e platform for e2e agents, from literally the language ecosystem(anthropic betting on TS/Bun) to local dev tooling using their harnesses to production-grade stuff that an agent needs.
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