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Forstall Out; Ive Up

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Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#91

Post by kalid »

bane wrote: post #42
Steko wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd help me if you gave examples what you think iOS could be doing that's it not. The big ticket feature that iOS didn't have 60 days ago was built in turn by turn maps. Since they added that with 6.0 I guess I'm wondering what else you're pining for? A weather widget? NFC? Fjords?

I'm principally talking about look and feel. iOS looks and operates great, let's get that out of the way. But it's essentially the same core design that was laid out in 2007 + Androidish notifications + multitasking-lite. At a glance can the average user tell the difference between iOS 2 or 3 and 6? I acknowledge that that's not necessarily an entirely worthy goal in and of itself, but keeping a design focused produc…

I think it's a tremendous strength that the design hasn't needed to drastically change in 5 years and stay competitive. A lot of people are still getting their first iDevice. If you google "android home screen"

https://www.google.com/search?q=android+home+screen&qscr...

you'll get a cacaphony of different interfaces. Android may be "converging" on the right design, a potentially better design, but meanwhile people are suffering through all sorts of inconsistencies. For the vast majority of people who want their phones to "just work", Apple's approach is better [design it right, up front, in a way that can be used for years].

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#92

Post by planb »

Lewisham wrote: post #53
jader201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of what you've listed is just repeating the same point: iOS hasn't changed much since its inception. But you're still not answering the question: what needs to change? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think it can't be improved, because I can think of a few needed improvements myself. But I hear people continue to say this about Apple -- "They aren't innovating lately." -- without saying what needs to change.…

I'd like to see Intents or Contracts or something so that apps can reasonably an reliably communicate. The walled gardens that iOS has is fairly obnoxious. I have both an iPhone and Nexus 7, and I keep forgetting on N7 that sharing to Evernote doesn't require laborious app switching and cut and pasting. It's a very real, important piece of the puzzle that Apple hasn't even bothered trying to attempt.

Well, actually they are aware of this and they might introduce an interesting concept in iOS7: http://oleb.net/blog/2012/10/remote-view-controllers-in-ios-...

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#93

Post by jvzr »

Steko wrote: post #35
bane wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, iOS hit a higher quality product much earlier than Android. But to me it feels like an evolutionary dead-end. Sure they aren't fixing any problems, but they sure aren't really adding anything to make my life better. Or another evolutionary analogy: crocodiles have more or less been around forever -- they don't have to trumpet about solving calorie intake problems, or overheating in the summer, but it took…

It'd help me if you gave examples what you think iOS could be doing that's it not. The big ticket feature that iOS didn't have 60 days ago was built in turn by turn maps. Since they added that with 6.0 I guess I'm wondering what else you're pining for? A weather widget? NFC? Fjords?

"A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." -- Steve Jobs

That's not our job to think about what Apple could do to improve our lives. Personally, I've loved Don't Disturb Me since it came out but it sure wasn't an iOS-exclusive feature. Neither has been turn-by-turn navigation.

I don't want iOS to play the keep-up game. I want it to continue being the industry leader, the game changer, the OS everyone else looks up to.

And surely, you cannot disagree that iOS has kind of lost that status since iOS 4.x.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#94

Post by robmcm »

bane wrote: post #60
jader201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of what you've listed is just repeating the same point: iOS hasn't changed much since its inception. But you're still not answering the question: what needs to change? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think it can't be improved, because I can think of a few needed improvements myself. But I hear people continue to say this about Apple -- "They aren't innovating lately." -- without saying what needs to change.…

Look and feel-wise...the iOS look is getting dated. I don't think they should parrot the flat square look Microsoft is going for nor the Tron look in Android. But this http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/3331/screenshots/1108... is getting old (OS X is even worse) I'm not a visual designer so I'm not sure I'm entirely qualified to offer suggestions, but there are other button styles, even completely new ones that…

> ...I'm not a visual designer...

> How about some variation on the one in the upper right here? http://www.colourbox.com/preview/2584456-712013-exit-beautif....

Yup, the 90's want their design inspiration back

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#95

Post by gurkendoktor »

qq66 wrote: post #22
ChrisClark wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it is stagnant because when you look at the design, it just feels old. I'm not much of a designer, I can't tell you why, but it just seems dated. Perhaps it is the skeuomorphism, maybe something else, but something is off about it now.

It feels old because it hasn't changed in 5 years, but I personally appreciate that. All of the original mechanics make perfect sense, and the new mechanics (such as app folders and multitasking) have been introduced in a way that minimizes interference with the existing look and feel. As someone who uses a lot of music production apps that can't talk to each other, I do wish there was something like a filesystem, bu…

> It feels old because it hasn't changed in 5 years, but I personally appreciate that.

And I think Apple is betting on a "conservative" majority that does not want change for the sake of change (I'm certainly part of it) - just observe how similar all the iPhones look, or all the laptops, displays... The only exception I can think of are the cheaper iPods.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#96

Post by bruceboughton »

krickle wrote: post #55
jader201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of what you've listed is just repeating the same point: iOS hasn't changed much since its inception. But you're still not answering the question: what needs to change? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think it can't be improved, because I can think of a few needed improvements myself. But I hear people continue to say this about Apple -- "They aren't innovating lately." -- without saying what needs to change.…

I want widgets on the desktop and/or on the lock screen (as a developer api), sideloading applications, some way to store data accessable to any app, a phone number black or whitelist, and a way for users to allow an app to do arbitrary tasks in the background or refuse any app from doing the Apple-allowed tasks in the background. Oh, and keyboards, developers should be allowed to make keyboards. Then there are a ton…

As a counterpoint, I want none of those things.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#97

Post by alxp »

Zev wrote: post #81
Steko wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag.. You might not notice it, but, there is an eighth-of-a-second-ish delay between when you tap on most buttons and when the action occurs. An obvious (to me) example is when you tap on the back button on a navigation controller, and it takes a split second before anything happens.. It isn't much, but it…

I believe this is deliberate - giving a user a sense of what they did which results in the next action. This is especially important if the button you've pressed takes you to another screen.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#98

Post by ZeroGravitas »

brudgers wrote: post #46
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this meme (that, in no uncertain terms, Apple dumped Google) woud die. This is a very large contract between two large, competing companies. If I were looking only at the impact of the iOS decision, I would have a hard time believing that Google didn't tell Apple to piss off, but I think even that reading is far too simplistic.

Perhaps it is too simplistic, but the alternative Apple chose suggests hubris. I suspect that TomTom or Garmin or even OpenStreetMap would have been glad to partner with them to develop an app to replace Google Maps. Instead, Apple chose a homegrown solution, quality be damned and then threw TomTom under the bus when Maps was released half baked. The decision to adopt not invented here as corporate policy backfired.…

The "Apple dumped Google" meme was started by Apple fans before the new maps got released. You can go back and read the triumphant proclamations of how much better the new maps was going to be now that the nasty Googlers where no longer holding them back that were written all summer.

If the new Maps had even been good enough they'd still be saying it. Instead they're now trying to backpedal, just like before Maps was widely believed to be a bit shoddy it was claimed to be an Apple "homegrown", from scratch data set, when clearly they mostly just bought in data, but still managed to screw that up by putting some pretty crappy business info on top of solid map data. Now the emphasis (and blame) shifts onto all the data suppliers whereas before they'd all have remain faceless (just like Gorilla Glass wasn't allowed to name Apple as a customer, and Samsung has to screenprint Apple logos onto their chips).

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#99

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

bane wrote: post #60
jader201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of what you've listed is just repeating the same point: iOS hasn't changed much since its inception. But you're still not answering the question: what needs to change? Don't get me wrong, it's not that I think it can't be improved, because I can think of a few needed improvements myself. But I hear people continue to say this about Apple -- "They aren't innovating lately." -- without saying what needs to change.…

Look and feel-wise...the iOS look is getting dated. I don't think they should parrot the flat square look Microsoft is going for nor the Tron look in Android. But this http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/3331/screenshots/1108... is getting old (OS X is even worse) I'm not a visual designer so I'm not sure I'm entirely qualified to offer suggestions, but there are other button styles, even completely new ones that…

Do you really think if iOS had had different buttons and intents people wouldn't have called it an incremental improvement?

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#100

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

Steko wrote: post #17
bane wrote: post #6

May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

iOS is stagnant or mobile OSs are stagnant?

Android was listing screen capture as a new feature not long ago which hardly suggests a breakneck pace of change across the board.

Windows phone tiles are interesting but they don't feel game changing.

Is this an iOS thing or wider than that? Genuine question because if it was iOS alone then surely it would be eating Android's dust right now and that doesn't feel like it's the case, it feels like they're pretty much on a par.

(Just say I'm not wild about the word stagnant given that this is a market that has gone from nought to sixty in about the same time as it takes MS to get a version of Windows out, but it does feel like that pace has somewhat plateaued in the last 12 months or so).

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