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Forstall Out; Ive Up

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Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#21

Post by Steko »

bengl3rt wrote: post #15
nir wrote: post #3

"That makes it all the more telling that Apple’s press release contains no quote from Tim Cook offering kind words or thanks to Forstall." Indeed, this has been expected since Jony Ive was observed standing immediately to Tim Cook's right at the last Red Square May Day parade.

You joke, but Apple is a pretty terse company. Sometimes you have to read between the tea leaves (pun/misappropriation 100% intended)

Parsing exec shuffles from PR-speak is hardly specific to Apple. What I'm looking forward to are the "anonymous" leaks to All Things D (or whoever) over the next couple days.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#22

Post by qq66 »

ChrisClark wrote: post #20
Steko wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

I'd say it is stagnant because when you look at the design, it just feels old. I'm not much of a designer, I can't tell you why, but it just seems dated. Perhaps it is the skeuomorphism, maybe something else, but something is off about it now.

It feels old because it hasn't changed in 5 years, but I personally appreciate that. All of the original mechanics make perfect sense, and the new mechanics (such as app folders and multitasking) have been introduced in a way that minimizes interference with the existing look and feel. As someone who uses a lot of music production apps that can't talk to each other, I do wish there was something like a filesystem, but I also want it to be introduced in a way that does not change the basic look and feel of the device.

What's amazing is that an original iPhone and iPhone 5 look and feel largely identical for basic uses, even though the latter is a far more capable device. That's a testament to the strength of the original design.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#23

Post by brudgers »

erifneerg wrote: post #18
brudgers wrote: post #7

The idea that his leaving was based on the Maps debacle, may be correct. But not in the way that Gruber implies. The timing of his stock sale in May, is more consistent with the idea the Forstall foresaw the writing on the wall when he was made responsible for Maps. Selling 95% of his shares was clearly a sign that his long term commitment was in doubt. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57425920-37/apple-exec-sco...

Forstall may have been trying to do a move similar to what Jobs did when he returned to Apple. Jobs lost confidence in where the company was going and sold all but one of his shares. The maps may have called Forstall's "bluff".

One thing is pretty certain. The decision to dump Google was probably made above Forestall's pay grade. I suspect that the decision to include Maps in the next release of iOS happened about the same time as the decision to dump the stock. Stock sale announced in May, Maps announced in June.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#24

Post by susanhi »

Is this the new Jony Ive Apple?

Ive is Apple's new Product Chief (heads hardware and software design across whole company).

Federighi (Mac OS and iOS), Mansfield (Tech), Cue (Services & Content), Williams (Supply Chain), Schiller (Marketing) - all in support roles to Ive.

Under Steve Jobs, product and design was consolidated under himself. He had the ultimate say as to what shipped and he was the toughest curator. Now it appears that Apple is returning to that model, except now it's Jony Ive with that role.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#25

Post by hellmans »

Steko wrote: post #17
bane wrote: post #6

May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

Your out of place defensive reply (I assume you work on the Apple team?) notwithstanding, iOS is absolutely stagnant. They're in the unenviable position of being lauded and popular because of the simplicity of design, but that strangleholds them into a limited ability to change and improve.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#26

Post by brudgers »

ChrisClark wrote: post #20
Steko wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

I'd say it is stagnant because when you look at the design, it just feels old. I'm not much of a designer, I can't tell you why, but it just seems dated. Perhaps it is the skeuomorphism, maybe something else, but something is off about it now.

It's more or less Symbian or Palm Pilot with touch. What was groundbreaking in terms of interface was the method of input not the way the OS was designed. It's still just icons and a pointer.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#27

Post by bane »

Steko wrote: post #17
bane wrote: post #6

May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

I suppose, iOS hit a higher quality product much earlier than Android. But to me it feels like an evolutionary dead-end. Sure they aren't fixing any problems, but they sure aren't really adding anything to make my life better.

Or another evolutionary analogy: crocodiles have more or less been around forever -- they don't have to trumpet about solving calorie intake problems, or overheating in the summer, but it took mammals to invent fire and get to the moon.

Saying more or less "iOS is fine" is also saying "we're not interested in pushing the envelope anymore".

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#28

Post by Steko »

ChrisClark wrote: post #20
Steko wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

I'd say it is stagnant because when you look at the design, it just feels old. I'm not much of a designer, I can't tell you why, but it just seems dated. Perhaps it is the skeuomorphism, maybe something else, but something is off about it now.

I don't see much stagnation:

(1) Maps is probably the biggest thing they've done since the original phone's launch;

(2) they are moving more and more of the interaction to voice every year;

(3) they are moving more and more of the users' data to the cloud every year.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#29

Post by twism »

Steko wrote: post #17
bane wrote: post #6

May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…

"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.

Obviously you haven't spent any significant amount of time using Google Now.

Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up

#30

Post by skeletonjelly »

danilocampos wrote: post #13
Jonanin wrote: post #11

Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? He hasn't said anything new at all; almost half of the article quotes and the other half has already been iterated countless times in the press release thread. Gruber really isn't adding anything to the discussion, so why do we need him to parse it again for us?

> Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? Sure! I'd be happy to. The way Hacker News works is, people submit content. If people like the content, they vote it up. Sufficiently high-voted content reaches the front page. 55 people have voted this up at the time of this comment, feeling the content was worth their attention. Given the recency of the content relative to the votes it has received,…

Deferring this all to user voting doesn't make it more relevant though. Just look at the frontpage of reddit.
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