Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? He hasn't said anything new at all; almost half of the article quotes and the other half has already been iterated countless times in the press release thread. Gruber really isn't adding anything to the discussion, so why do we need him to parse it again for us?
Forstall Out; Ive Up
11–20 of 132 posts
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#12Hm. There were rumours about 18-24 months ago that Ive wanted out of Apple. I wonder if this decision is a consequence of that previous discord.
I also wonder what this means for the future of hardware design at Apple. If Ive must now look after both the hardware and the software, he must be less hands-on in the day-to-day work on individual designs. Does this imply that Apple are not expecting to iterate on the hardware design on a high level from now on and have identified the software as the area with most potential for aesthetic improvement?
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#13Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? He hasn't said anything new at all; almost half of the article quotes and the other half has already been iterated countless times in the press release thread. Gruber really isn't adding anything to the discussion, so why do we need him to parse it again for us?
> Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page?
Sure! I'd be happy to.
The way Hacker News works is, people submit content.
If people like the content, they vote it up. Sufficiently high-voted content reaches the front page. 55 people have voted this up at the time of this comment, feeling the content was worth their attention. Given the recency of the content relative to the votes it has received, it occupies the position you see on the front page.
Is there anything else I can help with?
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#14Congratulations to Tim Cook for making this decision. We might have to wait some time to see if it was the best decision, but at least he didn't just make the safe decision. It may be a risk, but it means Apple won't stagnate. It will change as a result of this.
This is all about unity.
Unifying iOS and OS X under one person.
Unifying human interface, both hardware and software, under one person.
Unifying underlying technologies under one person.
And fundamentally, unifying the team at the top, and removing discord.
No one can deny Forstall's legacy. But from what we've read in recent years I think there's real truth in this comment from Gruber:
"Thinking about it some more, though, and considering what I know about Forstall’s reputation within the company, I think that headline, euphemistic though it is, tells the plain truth: Forstall was an obstacle to collaboration within the company."
For the future? Integrating the hardware and the software was always Apple's core strength, that this just makes sense. It's an open question whether Ive has the technical knowledge for this role, but he certainly has the taste. He certainly wouldn't have let that new iPod nano UI be seen by the outside world.
Modern-day Apple has always shied away from manufacturing directly, and for good reason, but it may just be that they're too big not to anymore. That no one manufacturer can meet their demands, whether due to lack of capacity or politics. Making chips is difficult, and usually best left to the experts, but Apple now has the cash to hire the best and is in the perfect place to benefit from the competitive advantage it'd give. It'll be interesting to see how this new Technologies group turns out.
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#15"That makes it all the more telling that Apple’s press release contains no quote from Tim Cook offering kind words or thanks to Forstall." Indeed, this has been expected since Jony Ive was observed standing immediately to Tim Cook's right at the last Red Square May Day parade.
You joke, but Apple is a pretty terse company. Sometimes you have to read between the tea leaves (pun/misappropriation 100% intended)
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#16Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? He hasn't said anything new at all; almost half of the article quotes and the other half has already been iterated countless times in the press release thread. Gruber really isn't adding anything to the discussion, so why do we need him to parse it again for us?
> Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? Sure! I'd be happy to. The way Hacker News works is, people submit content. If people like the content, they vote it up. Sufficiently high-voted content reaches the front page. 55 people have voted this up at the time of this comment, feeling the content was worth their attention. Given the recency of the content relative to the votes it has received,…
Crying that something is on HN should really be a bannable offense. I have a feeling these are the same people who are constantly trying to delete relatively popular wikipedia articles over "notability concerns".
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#17May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…
"iOS is stagnant"
iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#18The idea that his leaving was based on the Maps debacle, may be correct. But not in the way that Gruber implies. The timing of his stock sale in May, is more consistent with the idea the Forstall foresaw the writing on the wall when he was made responsible for Maps. Selling 95% of his shares was clearly a sign that his long term commitment was in doubt. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57425920-37/apple-exec-sco...
Forstall may have been trying to do a move similar to what Jobs did when he returned to Apple. Jobs lost confidence in where the company was going and sold all but one of his shares. The maps may have called Forstall's "bluff".
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#19Can someone please tell me why this is worthy of HN front page? He hasn't said anything new at all; almost half of the article quotes and the other half has already been iterated countless times in the press release thread. Gruber really isn't adding anything to the discussion, so why do we need him to parse it again for us?
Instead of wasting your time reading the article and then complaining, use it in finding a real HN worthy piece on the New section. I know for a fact there are lots of really interesting stuff that goes by unnoticed with 2 or 3 votes.
That's pretty much the only thing you can do to improve the situation.
Re: Forstall Out; Ive Up
#20May be the second time I've found a genuinely insightful piece by Gruber. Skeuomorphic design was a nod to my non-computer using father in the 90s. It no more represents useful metaphors for interfaces than steam engines represent a good way to build cars. iOS is stagnant, reviews of recent Apple designed skeuo-heavy apps bemone the lack of functionality -- while noting what must be hundreds of hours of graphics work…
"iOS is stagnant" iOS only seems stagnant because they don't have to trumpet every year about how they've finally gotten rid of ui lag or completely overhauled the system appearance. These are points in it's favor to most people.
I'd say it is stagnant because when you look at the design, it just feels old. I'm not much of a designer, I can't tell you why, but it just seems dated. Perhaps it is the skeuomorphism, maybe something else, but something is off about it now.