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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#281

Post by oulipo2 »

Legend2440 wrote: post #43
oulipo2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? that's what "rolling out" is about, to test and gradually use the scheme if it works

The trouble is that paying a few people to not work is very very different from paying everyone to not work. We need people to work to produce the things they need to live. As long as this remains true, UBI can never happen. This fantasy of being able to live without working is out of touch with the cold hard reality.

The issue you're having is that thinking that because you're giving some UBI, people will suddenly "stop working" (wrong: ALL STUDIES show the exact opposite)

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#282

Post by hackable_sand »

uoaei wrote: post #191
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

What kind of undervalued labor do unemployed salespeople and carpet installers perform during unemployment?

Enjoying art

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#283

Post by hackable_sand »

TrainedMonkey wrote: post #130
esperent wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Irish person, in normal speech the word "scheme" has exactly the same shady connotations as it does for Americans. Calling someone a "schemer" is a common insult. I've always assumed the government started using the word in a rare moment of honesty and it stuck.

Or perchance it is the other way around. The word started as official term and over time got shady connotation because can't trust Big Government.

As in "schematic"

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#284

Post by inglor_cz »

Griffinsauce wrote: post #256
Azrael3000 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally i would argue that in every such programm there will be people that abuse the system. Just because gp knows one such person, does not mean that everybody will be doing that. The article also mentions that overall the program had a positive impact.

There is generally a heavy bias to focusing on abuse instead of outcomes. Who cares that there are some false positives if there is a net benefit, it's just noise.

Every special interest will claim that "give more money to us" leads to better societal outcomes.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#285

Post by inglor_cz »

s_dev wrote: post #211
tomcam wrote: post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

Irish here. It's a cultural thing. Ireland is the only country in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument. Art is seen as a worthwhile endeavour even if it can't necessarily support itself as a private endeavour. It's for the same reason galleries and museums are subsidised by the government. Anyone can call themselves an artist but to receive this money you would have to have a portfolio of work that…

Is there a tradition of rich Irish people supporting Irish artists privately?

In other places (like Italy) there is.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#287

Post by inglor_cz »

antonvs wrote: post #212
Sl1mb0 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where we're at huh?

This is their brain on capitalism

I wish more intellectuals had their "brain on capitalism".

It is dismaying to find out how many American academicians take Marxism seriously - unless they stem from countries like Cuba that had the misfortune to actually let Marxist ideas rule them. It is mental fentanyl for certain kind of collectivist mind.

Give me Hayek and Buckley instead.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#288

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Swizec wrote: post #218
s_dev wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irish here. It's a cultural thing. Ireland is the only country in the world whose national symbol is a musical instrument. Art is seen as a worthwhile endeavour even if it can't necessarily support itself as a private endeavour. It's for the same reason galleries and museums are subsidised by the government. Anyone can call themselves an artist but to receive this money you would have to have a portfolio of work that…

We have a similar scheme in Slovenia. Don't know the details but there's the concept of a "free artist". At a minimum you need a registered business, regular exhibitions or performances in your field, you have to register with the ministry of culture, and can't have a job. Contract work is allowed and encouraged. Also you are expected to apply when the government issues a Call For Creatives. I think you get paid mini…

> Also you are expected to apply when the government issues a Call For Creatives.

I love the idea of having a list of "Registered Artists", where you get a basic income as long as you're prepared to Answer The Call of Your Country when needed.

"We need a nice cartoony figure for this public safety film! Find me some artists!"

"Here you go, boss"

"Naw, not those guys, have you got anything in a more Shel Silverstein-y kind of look? How about those ones?"

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#289

Post by waterhouse »

Griffinsauce wrote: post #256
Azrael3000 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally i would argue that in every such programm there will be people that abuse the system. Just because gp knows one such person, does not mean that everybody will be doing that. The article also mentions that overall the program had a positive impact.

There is generally a heavy bias to focusing on abuse instead of outcomes. Who cares that there are some false positives if there is a net benefit, it's just noise.

A general reason to focus on abuse instead of immediately visible outcomes: if the abuse is not dealt with properly, then that may lead to the abuse becoming increasingly widespread and blatant, which will affect future outcomes.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#290

Post by ergocoder »

bawolff wrote: post #216
ergocoder wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no good way to evaluate the result anyway. Grants like this at a small scale is generally inconsequential to the country.

You could evaluate how much art gets created

Anyone could have created a godly insane amount of arts if they don't care about quality.

The quantity of arts isn't a good metrics.

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