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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#151
If the Irish truly want this, I'm glad for them.

But in my view, arts should be funded by people in private. Any spare resources the government can muster up should be invested in improving the security and quality of life for its people. If no one ever goes hungry, and their medical needs are met swiftly, and justice is swift and accessible to all. then I can see the appeal in funding arts. But even then, sciences can meaningfully and in the long-term improve humans' lives.

I don't even know if the arts would benefit from this. Will the government arbitrate whose art is better? Private persons would, they won't fund a terrible artist. and from what I know about artists, the rejection and failure is instrumental to revelations and breakthroughs in their art. Without that, will the state be funding or facilitating mediocrity in art?

Imagine if this was for entrepreneurs. If the government will provide income so long as you're starting businesses. If you didn't have much to begin with, it might prevent you from giving up businesses that are failing, hold on to that restaurant years after it's failed because you like the vibe, and your needs are met. But if you'll eventually be in danger of running out of money to support yourself, you'll be forced to shut doors early, learn lessons and move on to something better.

I'm just making a case against dreams being kept alive artificially on life-support. And of the consequence of not having adversity when needed. I don't know if it's true, but I remember an analogy of artificial biospheres failing to grow trees and plants early on, because they didn't simulate wind. the trees needed the resistance, push and adversity of wind to thrive.

But I'll digress, I'm not saying Ireland did wrong, just putting my thoughts on the subject out there. They know what they're doing, I'm sure. And this is sounding too much like damn linkedin post, and on HN too of all places, talking about entrepreneurship, shame on me! :)

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#152
post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

It's not like Ireland is getting rid of unemployment insurance. And insurance sales and carpet installation are professions where there are jobs that actually pay a living wage.

A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. For thousands of years that activity was sponsored by monarchs, royalty and other nobility. Up until actually quite recently, most first world countries without monarchs and nobles also provided substantial support for the arts.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#153

Sweden introduced a similar scheme in 1964, in which artists (broadly defined, having since come to include one clown and one chess player) have been given a basic income, supplementing their other incomes up to a specific level. Artists couldn't apply for this, but were officially selected. The program was stopped in 2010, meaning no new recipients have been selected since. As far as I know, there's been no studies…

I'd bet what happens is that it just funded a bunch of children of upper middle class families.

Scholarships and this kind of funds happen elsewhere and are based on merits. They end up funding a bunch of upper middle class's children because it turns out those children are well-equipped to perform higher on merits.

If you are too rich, then you wouldn't need this kind of fund.

If you are below upper middle class, then you would have a hard time competing with children from that class.

The upper middle class isn't rich enough to fund the kid but is good enough to accumulate a lot of merits.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#154

They had something like this in the Netherlands during the 80s. Basically everyone was out of a job back then so it didn't really matter. Worst recession since 1929. Artists had to make a buch of art which was then given to the government. The state ended up with entire warehouses filled with crap.

I have a feeling that this art will end up all over the walls.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#155
post #144

I don’t get it. Why are artists more deserving than unemployed insurance salespeople or carpet installers?

It's not like Ireland is getting rid of unemployment insurance. And insurance sales and carpet installation are professions where there are jobs that actually pay a living wage. A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. For thousands of years that activity was sponsored by monarchs, royalty and other nobility. Up until actually quite recently, most first world countries with out m…

> A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture.

Basically outlandishly rich and gaudy benefactors have always had so much money they could employ OTHERS to do trivial pursuits. Now - the average taxpayer will bear that cost.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#156

They had something like this in the Netherlands during the 80s. Basically everyone was out of a job back then so it didn't really matter. Worst recession since 1929. Artists had to make a buch of art which was then given to the government. The state ended up with entire warehouses filled with crap.

There was also the WPA program in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration The work also included infrastructure projects, and often would create public art to decorate the infrastructure. That is why you'll see far more decorative work when looking at bridges from that era, for example.

they hired artists and builders, they had a nice run of building domestic concentration camps that would make Nancy Pelosi scream ice faster than you could blink

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like Ireland is getting rid of unemployment insurance. And insurance sales and carpet installation are professions where there are jobs that actually pay a living wage. A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. For thousands of years that activity was sponsored by monarchs, royalty and other nobility. Up until actually quite recently, most first world countries with out m…

> A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. Basically outlandishly rich and gaudy benefactors have always had so much money they could employ OTHERS to do trivial pursuits. Now - the average taxpayer will bear that cost.

I'm sure if you asked the average tax payer they would prefer programs like these rather than corporate welfare nonsense. So yeah, seems alright to me. I'm a tax payer.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#158
post #150
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone ever tried to look at the concept of a Universal Basic Job? If you can show up semi-sober, you get paid to paint over graffiti, or pick up trash along the road, or something.

This is kinda what minimum wage jobs are? You could say depression era WPA/CCC programs were an example of a government providing this.

No, minimum wage jobs are kind of the opposite. They push underqualified people to the side, since who wants to pay $15/hour for someone only capable of producing $5/hr of value. And most jobs generally come with more obligations, like "we need you here 2pm - 10pm, Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday".

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of societies have realized there is value in supporting art and culture. Basically outlandishly rich and gaudy benefactors have always had so much money they could employ OTHERS to do trivial pursuits. Now - the average taxpayer will bear that cost.

I'm sure if you asked the average tax payer they would prefer programs like these rather than corporate welfare nonsense. So yeah, seems alright to me. I'm a tax payer.

i purchase a hell of a lot more stuff from Walmart than I do fine art.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#160
post #10

Previous discussions: 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45590900 4 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29977176 People have seemed critical of the presentation, scope, and goal of this program. (e.g. It's not "universal" basic income, the number of recipients is limited to 2,000, and why are artists being subsidized instead of essential workers?) Now it seems that we'll get some real worl…

I dont see how we are getting "answers". Disagreeing with program design is not a question. Tbh though, that doesn't sound that special. Many countries subsidize artists.

There's no good way to evaluate the result anyway.

Grants like this at a small scale is generally inconsequential to the country.

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