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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#71

Post by calmbonsai »

cmiles8 wrote: post #11

You have the right to try and fly without an ID. The airlines also have the right to tell you to buzz off and get lost and the airport operator has the right to decide they don’t want you in the building and trespass you if you don’t scram.

You have an absolute "right to travel" (see the 14th amendment and other cases as recently as 1999), but you're also absolutely correct that "common carriers" can can refuse commercial service and you can be criminally trespassed from an airport, BUT TSA can not charge you a fee to attempt to fly.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#72

Post by OkayPhysicist »

umeshunni wrote: post #42
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license? All 50 states and 5 US territories issue RealID compliant drivers license/ID

> How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license? What he really means is illegals who have fake ids who now can't get RealIDs.

Undocumented immigrants can have authentic, non-"RealID" ids, as things such as drivers licenses are the purview of the states, and infringement there upon is an attack on their constitutional sovereignty. California, for example, is perfectly happy to give out drivers licenses to anybody who can establish residency and pass the test, since there's no sense in creating a double jeopardy situation wherein because someone has committed one crime (illegally immigrating to California), they are forced to commit an additional crime (driving without a license). It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#73

Post by alecbz »

ibejoeb wrote: post #59
alecbz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they'd pay individual employees more, it's that they'd hire more workers to account for the fact that their existing workers are tied up doing extra verification. Though they might not do that either.

Even that fails a sanity test. They're not doing anything more than they would have done 25 years ago when the whole damn thing started.

I wasn't flying 25 years ago but I'm not sure what you mean, or how that's relevant actually. The point is just that it takes them more time to do the "extra screening" if you don't have your ID than the standard screening if you did have your ID.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#74

Post by tssva »

crazygringo wrote: post #36
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

It may be many things, but I very much doubt the motivation is a money grab . A few people paying $45 isn't lining the pockets of some government official, or plugging a hole in any possible budget. Dealing with the presence of travelers who haven't updated their driver's licenses requires a bunch of extra staff to perform the time-consuming additional verifications. The basic idea is for those staff to be paid by th…

There is no legal requirement to show id or answer any questions to establish identification before flying. In other words there is no extra work required by law which the fee would cover.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#75

Post by beeflet »

lateforwork wrote: post #25
paxys wrote: post #23

It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…

The $45 pays for extra checks and scrutiny.

what the fuck extra checks and scrutiny could they possibly need? They already go through an x-ray machine and get molested before we get on the plane, "real ID" or not.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#76

Post by ibejoeb »

antonymoose wrote: post #47
ibejoeb wrote: post #33

It's a real head-scratcher that the cohort that claims government ID is unattainable for some people hasn't taken up this issue. "Real ID" isn't something that is just delivered to you. Now we're going to charge money not to have it?

In my state Real ID is just delivered to you. It used to cost $10 for a replacement ID printed in the DMV. Now I pay $25 for a third-party vendor to line their pockets and mail me a new ID weeks later!

What REAL ID-compliant document doesn't require an office visit? Also, if you're paying for it, it isn't accessible.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#77

Post by Forgeties79 »

crazygringo wrote: post #56
Forgeties79 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$45 x millions of people (some multiple times) = an incredibly consequential amount of money

It's not millions of people, most people get Real ID. In the context of airport security budgets, it's not that much. And it's used for hiring the additional staff required and putting together the identity verification systems they use.

“Most” people can have it and there’d still be millions (tens of millions, even over 100mill) of people who don’t. Multiple states don’t even require it. That guarantees several million people right there.

I think New York is one, so well over 10mill people don’t require it. Do you seriously think most of those people are getting one anyway? Guarantee you there are millions of people without it if not tens of millions. I’d put money on it.

So back to the point, we’re talking likely 100’s of millions of dollars. That is nothing to sneeze at. The TSA is an $11bill operation based on a quick search. $500mill (~11mill people) would be 5% of their annual budget.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#78

Post by crazygringo »

tssva wrote: post #74
crazygringo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be many things, but I very much doubt the motivation is a money grab . A few people paying $45 isn't lining the pockets of some government official, or plugging a hole in any possible budget. Dealing with the presence of travelers who haven't updated their driver's licenses requires a bunch of extra staff to perform the time-consuming additional verifications. The basic idea is for those staff to be paid by th…

There is no legal requirement to show id or answer any questions to establish identification before flying. In other words there is no extra work required by law which the fee would cover.

The TSA is literally doing all this extra work though, whether or not you think it's required by law. They're not just pocketing the $45 and then blindly waving you ahead.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#79

Post by hamdingers »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #50
stonogo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Your job can buy you a plane ticket but they can't get you through TSA.

Are you saying our state offers both RealID and none RealID driver’s licenses?

All states do (for now). Not everyone qualified to drive is capable of proving their identity to the level RealID requires.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#80

Post by QuadmasterXLII »

Aurornis wrote: post #63
stonogo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Your job can buy you a plane ticket but they can't get you through TSA.

> RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Where is that? I’m curious. Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version.

for what its worth, my state made it unpleasant enough that it was easier to just got a non-real id and a renew the ol passport
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