Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

iranintl.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 844 posts

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#301

Post by adriand »

bdelmas wrote: post #289

I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

I’m not sure if this is an honest question or not, but I’ll treat it as such, even though you could answer your own question quite easily. The West is not complicit in the actions of the Iranian regime in any way that is similar to the situation with Israel. We are not arming the Iranians with the weapons they turn on civilians: very much not the case with Israel. Israel is treated like a normal state, whereas Iran is an international pariah and the subject of crippling sanctions. I could go on. The point is that westerners protest the actions of Israel because we believe we are part of the problem and that our protest might make a difference.

In fact, we believe - quite rightly - that if the US had conditioned military assistance to Israel on appropriate care for civilians, then the awful tragedy that unfolded in Gaza could have been averted. Similar levers for changing the behaviour of Iran do not exist.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#302

Post by mikkupikku »

bdelmas wrote: post #289

I really don’t understand why in the West there is nobody in the streets to protest but there was so many people for Palestine… Where are the people?

Palestine had a ton of easily accessible video evidence, and not just from the victim's side but also lots of "hot takes" from the Israeli side as well, lots of talk from Israeli civilians and government officials about how there are no innocent civilians in Gaza and other deranged plainly genocidal remarks. In other words, there can be no reasonable doubt about what was going on and the only question really is who's side you're on.

With Iran, there's not a whole bunch of similar material, the death count estimates vary greatly from source to source, and we've got an untrustworthy president beating a war drum which probably makes people a bit more skeptical.. Atrocity propaganda to persuade a democracy to enter a war is something attentive people will be familiar with; incubator babies being tossed on the floor, dissidents being fed feet first into industrial grinders, people remember these stories preceding other wars and remember that evidence for the claims never materialized. Then there's the whole geopolitical angle where the Trump administration in fact supports Israel and Iran happens to be one of Israel's most powerful regional opponents. There are plenty of reasons to temper feelings of certainty.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#303

Post by jdthedisciple »

inglor_cz wrote: post #281
jdthedisciple wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact, the same people who preach democracy to you all day, plotted and went about to oust one of the most democratically legitimate leaders of his country by night. Let that sink in for a moment.

I am almost sure that every single person who plotted the 1953 coup is dead. Maybe one of them survives somewhere aged 103 and no longer knowing their name. Should Macron be judged by what Napoleon III. (or for that matter, I.) did? Surely there is some kind of continuity between those French heads of state, they even fly the some colors and sit in the same palace.

What makes you think the CIA/Mossad fundamentally operate differently today?

Oh btw, since we're on the topic of false flags:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#304

Post by jdthedisciple »

inglor_cz wrote: post #279
jdthedisciple wrote: post #221

Just leaving this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

I never understood why some people get so fixated on one event in 1953, as if nothing else mattered after that. Sure, it had a nontrivial effect. But it also happened in a time when Stalin and Churchill were still alive, there were 6 billion people fewer on the planet and the first antibiotics and transistors barely entered production. Korea was poorer than Ghana etc. It is 2026, three generations have passed, and no…

The question is, how can you be sure anything you see in the (controlled) news is not another instance of covert plots, false flags, and psyops [0]?

How, precisely how?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(Unit...

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#306

Post by breppp »

inglor_cz wrote: post #279
jdthedisciple wrote: post #221

Just leaving this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat

I never understood why some people get so fixated on one event in 1953, as if nothing else mattered after that. Sure, it had a nontrivial effect. But it also happened in a time when Stalin and Churchill were still alive, there were 6 billion people fewer on the planet and the first antibiotics and transistors barely entered production. Korea was poorer than Ghana etc. It is 2026, three generations have passed, and no…

It's the nature of fascist countries to be fixated on the past

timothy snyder describes it as the "politics of eternity"

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#307

Post by midlander »

OwlsParlay wrote: post #264
bawolff wrote: post #29

That's crazy. That's like ~40% of the deaths in the current gaza war, except over just 2 days instead of 2 years.

This is a country of 90 million, compared to Gaza which was 2million

These are 30,000 human lives. Their value doesn’t diminish because of a larger supply.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#308

Post by lukan »

epolanski wrote: post #292

This is a tragedy. I'm very against foreign forces intervening in such situations they can do more harm than good. On the other hand, effective dictatorships (hell executive in democratic countries too) are good at controlling police and military. E.g. take Belarus when it went through a wave of protests few years ago. I always think, if the people would really be against the regime, wouldn't members of the police an…

"Which means that either there is no such an internal pressure or the regimes are extraordinarily good at selecting and incentivizing people to maintain the status quo."

Or there is pressure and discontent, but simply not enough to topple the regime as it needs way more than 50% support for a internal regime change.

I have childhood memories of such a succesful change in eastern germany. Most people had enough for a long time, but they knew the sovjet tanks would come if they revolted. After it seemed the sovjets were busy on their own and won't come but rather did democratic reforms themself, but the GDR refused and stayed stalinistic - then the people went to the streets. And at some point those in power just gave up. Not really a consciouss choice, but they were visibly insecure and confused, so weak and fell. (But it was a close call, some wanted to bring out the machine guns as well)

The iranian mullahs were insecure, but they choose the violent path of dominance.

Not the same situation, as they did not rely on a foreign power like in GDR, but it seems they lost majority support a long time ago, but have a loyal enough religious base to use the weapons.

And yes, military and police who have family members on the streets will defect at some point and it seems that also happened in Iran, just not enough.

Re: Over 36,500 killed in Iran's deadliest massacre, documents reveal

#309

Post by johanyc »

vogre wrote: post #284
squidbeak wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why lie about this when the first paragraph is explicit about its source? > As many as 30,000 people could have been killed in the streets of Iran on Jan. 8 and 9 alone, two senior officials of the country’s Ministry of Health told TIME

>two senior officials of the country’s Ministry of Health And their names are never called.

It's pretty common practice if naming them will get the people who shared the info in trouble. Depends on whether you think Time is a trustworthy source I guess
Post reply on HN