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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#261

Post by anymouse123456 »

sghiassy wrote: post #150
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

The YouTube app on iOS is superior to the Android app for one

This used to be true, but really is not anymore.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#262

Post by throwaway132448 »

B1FIDO wrote: post #219
Grikbdl wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cromulent for describing something of secondary importance or shadowy nature yes, but the entire idea is that that is wrong.

[flagged]

The uneducated one here is the one who appears unaware that "installing software" was a thing long before app stores. Security is irrelevant to the meaning of the word, so continuing to go on about it only further devalues your point and does nothing to counter the OP's point.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#263

Post by jasode »

palata wrote: post #245
jasode wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? I researched iOS vs Android last year so some of my info may be out of date but this is what I collected. Apple iOS exclusives (or earlier app versions because devs prioritized iOS): ChatGPT iOS app -2 months befor…

It seems like a pretty arbitrary list to me... Also Android has a bigger market share in the world than iOS, by a lot.

>Also Android has a bigger market share in the world than iOS, by a lot.

The tone of that seems like you thought I was taking the discussion into fanboy evangelism and therefore Android needed to be defended. That wasn't the intent and I already tried to downplay my comment by stating the iOS ecosystem specifics do not matter to 99% of mainstream users. Yes, everybody on HN already knows Android has a much bigger market share.

The point was simply to inform the gp asking the question about iOS that there are apps and niches he may not be aware of. Nobody's trying to convince any reader of switching to iOS or that "iOS is superior" ... or vice versa!

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#264

Post by B1FIDO »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #246
B1FIDO wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm talking about is actual trust. Like, there are cryptographic measures taken, certificates involved, code signing, that kind of thing. You claim that you "can install anything" on Windows, but that is simply false. The system's Driver Signature Enforcement will prohibit the install of unsigned or invalid signatures on device drivers. Windows SmartScreen will also give you trouble by blocking unsigned apps. So…

Cryptographic trust is a different thing than actual trust. The latter is what makes the world work, the former is a tool people occasionally confuse for the real thing, but actually is mostly opposite to it.

Look we are talking about computers here. Computers don't understand or exercise actual trust as you describe it. Actual trust doesn't make computers work at all, because it doesn't exist in their world. So you need a proxy for it.

The security vetting, the authentication, the scans that are done, whether by Google Play or by F-Droid, are a process that tries to eliminate egregious abuses and basically curate the collection so that the users have something to actually trust. Now you understand that actual trust comes in degrees, right? I don't trust everything on Play equally. There are plenty of different types of trust relationships between me and the Play Store and the devs who put their apps on it.

But cryptographically, cybersecurity-wise, we need that CIA triad, and we need to authenticate that developers are who they say they are. And that authentication is the crux of cryptographic code signing. That we can trust that updates came from the source, and not a 3rd party injection or supply-chain attack. If Google or F-Droid countersigns it, then it's been through their vetting process as well. That's how cryptographic signing establishes trust relationships for computers.

If your computer doesn't trust an app or a driver, it won't download, install or run it. Since you cannot teach a computer "actual trust" there must be an analogue to this. And it's working fine. I don't know what you're on about "opposite to actual trust". If you don't trust Google Play, that's a you problem.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#265

Post by B1FIDO »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #262
B1FIDO wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The uneducated one here is the one who appears unaware that "installing software" was a thing long before app stores. Security is irrelevant to the meaning of the word, so continuing to go on about it only further devalues your point and does nothing to counter the OP's point.

"installing software" sometimes still consists of

  curl | bash
So if you want to have a conversation about trusting curl and bash and random gists...

Like I said, I installed software in many ways back in the day. I typed it in; I loaded off cassette tape; I loaded off disk. One common denominator was loading from trusted sources. My Atari cartridges were store-bought and not homebrew. I went to B.Dalton mostly for the software, and got it shrinkwrapped from the publisher.

I had a number of classmates and colleagues who caught viruses and malware from loading and installing cracked software or untrusted programs... or even alleged porn, from shady sources. This is still a good way to get infected.

When I get on a friend's computer, I often have occasion to congratulate them for being uninfected, and it's nearly always because they "practiced good hygiene" in terms of loading only trusted software from trusted sources.

So you're correct, in that really nothing has changed. Back in 1983 you could certainly "sideload" crap from a pirate BBS and then suffer the consequences. And we all had choice words for people like that.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#266

Post by lgeek »

synergy20 wrote: post #203
Derbasti wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Camera apps. Everything else I agree with, but the Android camera APIs do not allow developers to build good device independent camera apps the way they are available on iOS.

first time hear this, any more specifics? i used android to develop video conference software and don't recall camera limits

I'm only familiar with this as a user and not a developer, but I've had multiple Android phone where not all camera features available in the Camera app were available to other apps via the APIs:

* not all cameras being available

* stabilisation not working

* 60 FPS unavailable

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#267

Post by vbezhenar »

anymouse123456 wrote: post #257
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

It’s incredibly sad to watch Google abandon the values that inspired so much trust and belief that there is a better way to build a company. Long time Pixel user here who has always believed the story that Apple has the closed, but refined, higher quality experience and Google has the slightly freer, but coarser UX. I was convinced to make the switch this year and the Apple iPhone 17 Pro + whatever iOS version is, by…

The whole software world is shit now. The foundations were stable decades ago. Like Windows kernel, WinAPI, .NET, WPF, Linux kernel. But end user software is so terrible. Windows 11 with ads and unhelpful AI. macOS which is a bit less terrible, but still too bloated. Linux with its eternal changes between X, Wayland, Alsa, Pipewire, Pulseaudio, sysvinit, systemd, and endless choices. Both iOS and Android are terrible. iOS was perfect 10 years ago, it's absolute clownfest now. I would blame AI vibe coders, but it started before. I don't know who to blame. Why can't we just build solid minimal non-bloated OS that will last for decades without major rewrites. We've got so good foundations but so terrible end product.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#268

Post by BlaDeKke »

embedding-shape wrote: post #236
manuelabeledo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iOS YouTube app is not worse than the one in Android. Texting in iOS is arguably better or, at the very least, there is one more app to choose (Messages). And I’m curious to know what makes Antenna Pod so much better than the thousands of other podcast apps out there. Social media apps have historically been worse in Android, because of lax app and privacy controls. > What else is there, where is the advantage? P…

> Texting in iOS is arguably better or, at the very least Since some updates ago, my keyboard is still broken if I type too fast, and autocorrect been essentially broken for the same amount of time. Must be happening for ~years now, still waiting for a new update to finally fix it. At least on Android you can change the keyboard to something else if you'd like, instead of being stuck with what your OS developer force…

The keyboard can be changed in iOS.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#269

Post by potatoproduct »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

""Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS.""

You mean Apple has been forced by regulators to implement core features like USB-C and RCS?

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#270

Post by barbecue_sauce »

Jedd wrote: post #156
karlgkk wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, you’re so wrong about the app situation that it’s almost staggering. iOS apps tend to be more stable, better polished, have better integration with system features (like the Dynamic Island), and even often have more features. This isn’t even an unfounded opinion, it’s a material problem for Google and led them to vastly investing in automated testing and quality efforts App addressable user base is another…

FWIW, starting a sentence with "Honestly ..." always makes me think the rest of what this person has to say is dishonest. Your BIO on HN is: > I HAVEN'T SHOWERED AT ALL! THAT'S WHY I REEK! WORKING IN FINTECH! AIN'T SHAVED IN WEEKS! POUR CRUMBS FROM MY KEYBOARD! THAT'S WHAT I EAT! WROTE A CURRENCY LIBRARY! 3RD TIME THIS WEEK! LURKING HN! I PREFER /b/! IN MOM'S BASEMENT! I'M THIRTY THREE! IT'S 3'O'CLOCK AM! THAT'S WHEN…

"Honestly" is a colloquialism used to indicate disbelief with the previous statement or to preface candidness. Choosing to interpret the colloquial use of "honestly" as an indication that everything else that person says is dishonest is a very weird trait I've only seen show up in grammarian literalists and pedants that only makes yourself seem like a disingenuous person.
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