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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#241

Post by glenstein »

B1FIDO wrote: post #188
goldenarm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is my own opinion as an Android developer and ex custom ROM maintainer, I've not read that blog post. Instead of ad-hominem, can you explain what do you really disagree on?

[flagged]

The inconvenient fact that bursts this bubble is that installing already is the default term, and it's the emergence of "side loading" which is the anachronistic attempt to redefine the term.

The idea that a precondition for something to count is installing is that it's vetted by a big company is the abberation, and the notion that it's trustworthy is belied by the avalanche of unsafe and privacy violating apps that find their way into the store. F-Droid apps are actually more carefully vetted than Play Store apps, so there goes the trust rationale.

You're the one muddying the waters.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#242

Post by ErikBjare »

Derbasti wrote: post #180
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

Camera apps. Everything else I agree with, but the Android camera APIs do not allow developers to build good device independent camera apps the way they are available on iOS.

To be fair to Android, iOS isn't offering "good device independent camera apps" either, you only have ~one choice of device with iOS.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#243

Post by Sytten »

necovek wrote: post #36

I would like to see a high friction flow for installing all the crap from the Play Store to "protect and educate users". "Are you sure you want to install this app? It's only got a score of 2.8 and only 7 reviews, and will ask for all of these permissions?"

I want even worse restrictions on my parent phone so they dont install spyware. I want "install ONLY from fdroid". I trust their one server in a basement more than Google at this point.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#244

Post by beepbooptheory »

KolmogorovComp wrote: post #208
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

> Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in no way better. What else is there, where is the advantage? This is incorrect. The IOS versions of social media apps extract way less data from the device than on android, and is thus more privacy friendly. Sure the best way would be for people not to use them, but if you "have" to, then it's better to use those on IOS.

You'd think this would be more known! I feel like general sentiment says the opposite is the case.. What can one point to in the future to show what you are saying here?

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#245

Post by palata »

jasode wrote: post #233
onli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

>I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? I researched iOS vs Android last year so some of my info may be out of date but this is what I collected. Apple iOS exclusives (or earlier app versions because devs prioritized iOS): ChatGPT iOS app -2 months befor…

It seems like a pretty arbitrary list to me...

Also Android has a bigger market share in the world than iOS, by a lot.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#246

Post by TeMPOraL »

B1FIDO wrote: post #207
goldenarm wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're infantilising the users. It's untrusted by Google, but it's trusted by myself. I actually trust the Termux and Kodi devs way more than Google, yet they Google has been blocking their updates. Note that the term sideloading is exclusively used by mobile OSes. On Windows MacOS and Linux you can install anything.

What I'm talking about is actual trust. Like, there are cryptographic measures taken, certificates involved, code signing, that kind of thing. You claim that you "can install anything" on Windows, but that is simply false. The system's Driver Signature Enforcement will prohibit the install of unsigned or invalid signatures on device drivers. Windows SmartScreen will also give you trouble by blocking unsigned apps. So…

Cryptographic trust is a different thing than actual trust. The latter is what makes the world work, the former is a tool people occasionally confuse for the real thing, but actually is mostly opposite to it.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#247

Post by xethos »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #43

I heard that the frog boiling is a myth. You can't boil frog alive, it will jump out. As opposed to humans

The frog had to be pretty well lobotomized to keep it from jumping out. One can recreate the ”experiment” with a lobotomized frog and mostly get the result described though

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#248

Post by nkrisc »

pmlnr wrote: post #153
juliie wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I install my banking apps? Is there a Google pay equivalent? As much as I want open source, I really don't think it's there yet for most people.

> Can I install my banking apps? Choose a bank with viable web banking. > Is there a Google pay equivalent? It's called a debit/credit card.

Most people don’t want to rearrange their life around what their phone can’t do.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#249

Post by Macha »

clort wrote: post #223
Macha wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Choose a bank with viable web banking. There are five options in my country, 3 of which require app push based 2FA to log into the web interface and 2 of which only have an app interfere. Maybe I could get a EU bank from another EU country but my employer will not accept an out of country account for salary deposits because it makes their tax life difficult and my mortgage provider doesn't trust foreign accounts ei…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_the_Republic_... so Eire has 5 significant banks, and 15 'less significant'. There are also 276 Credit Unions, I don't know if they are useful. (I had a Credit Union account in the past, could send/receive online but no payment card) (I don't know their suitability, but there are more than 5 options in your country)

Of the "significant banks" listed, only AIB and Bank of Ireland do consumer bank accounts. I suspect the presence of the others is more to do with wanting an EU entity for targeting larger EU markets than the Irish domestic market. For example, Citibank only expanded from "large tech multinationals" to also "mid sized businesses that are planning to scale internationally" in 2023 [1]

Also on that Wikipedia page are Dell's private bank, Danske Bank (closed their Irish retail business in 2013), Klarna (sort of banking-adjacent, but they're not giving you a current account), etc.

The 5 banks offering retail consumer accounts nationwide are AIB, permanent TSB, Bank of Ireland, Revolut and N26. The first 3 are the surviving brick and mortar banks and the latter 2 are recent-ish neobank entries.

Credit unions are limited to serving customers in their local area. The one credit union who's catchment area I'm in also requires app based 2FA.

[1]: https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0925/1407279-citi-to-g...

(Side note: The name of the country in English is Ireland, the name in Irish is Éire - using the accent-less Irish name in English was promoted by the UK government and BBC because they didn't want to recognise the name of the country prior to the GFA in 1998. Most people will also accept Republic of Ireland if you need to distinguish from Northern Ireland, even though that's technically not the name)

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#250

Post by direwolf20 »

Macha wrote: post #189
pmlnr wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I install my banking apps? Choose a bank with viable web banking. > Is there a Google pay equivalent? It's called a debit/credit card.

> Choose a bank with viable web banking. There are five options in my country, 3 of which require app push based 2FA to log into the web interface and 2 of which only have an app interfere. Maybe I could get a EU bank from another EU country but my employer will not accept an out of country account for salary deposits because it makes their tax life difficult and my mortgage provider doesn't trust foreign accounts ei…

Your employer's tax obligations should depend on where you live and where they live and where the work happens, not where your bank account is.
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