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Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

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Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#71

Post by B1FIDO »

reddalo wrote: post #60
PunchTornado wrote: post #57

I agree with high friction sideloading. it is the best of both worlds. no friction sideloading is too easily exploited by scammers. having a member of my family exposed to this kind of thing in the past taught me some things.

I don't agree with the word "sideloading" though. It's just _installing_.

"Installing" has the connotation of doing it directly from the Play Store. This is also known as "Downloading" (because the data is on a server, in the cloud, and you're fetching it "downstream" to a local device.)

"Sideloading" doesn't refer to the installation process, but to the file transfer process. You're sideloading when you transfer, e.g. APKs from your notebook to your Android. Or, from a USB stick into your phone or something.

In general, though, "sideloading" also refers to any "non-app-store" installation. It's a kind of colloquial shorthand. It's not really a technical term. But it's adequate for getting the point across.

If you just called it "installing" without qualifying it, how would anyone know that it's a different process, or that it's accomplished not by navigating to the app store? It seems that you would invite ambiguity here!

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#72

Post by clhodapp »

londons_explore wrote: post #30
silisili wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling, despite Google's communications, this is all an attempt to thwart the numerous ad-free YouTube apps. Another reason it should have been broken apart years ago. It's laughable that the biggest ad company in the world owns the largest video site in the world, largest browser in the world, largest search engine in the world, and largest mobile OS in the world.

If google push too hard, someone will make a "youtube mirror" - ie. a complete copy of youtube at a different domain. The actual data could be hosted p2p across all the users devices, and any missing data retrieved one-time-only from real youtube servers.

Has there ever actually been a success story for using end user mobile handsets as servers?

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#74

Post by cakealert »

onli wrote: post #62
rich_sasha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the EU should pile in as well. It's basically an oven-ready independent mobile OS.

Graphene OS spends its social capital on hallucinating attacks from other projects and bullying other projects by sending their followers against them, based on those hallucinated attacks. It also has a completely intransparent project structure based around a supposedly retired mean developer, who then just did not (and still does almost all commits). That's not a project where the EU can invest money in, and the co…

Yes that guy is extremely weird, he should delegate operations and community management to someone who isn't weird and stick to development.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#75

Post by eloisant »

ffsm8 wrote: post #54
bluescrn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they think the audience is now fully captive. It is, for the large sub-$800 segment of the smartphone market.

you mean sub $599, right? https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-16e Which is still a valid argument, the number is just lower. And the UX on these sub 600 devices have definitely gotten worse over the last 5 years too... Likely because Google isn't really targeting that price point anymore, so Android isn't getting enough optimization to be viable on underpowered devices. That was different in 2010-2020

This market still exists and is pretty strong, especially outside of US. It's all on Android so Google doesn't need to try to compete here.

This is why with Pixel they're focusing on competing with the iPhone, they want people to use Android so there is no point in competing with other Android manufacturer.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#76

Post by max_ »

rich_sasha wrote: post #34
MrDresden wrote: post #24

When this whole thing got announced, I purchased a new Pixel 9 and flashed it with GrapheneOS. I am hoping that in about 6-8 years (when I realistically need to update) the landscape might be a bit better. Or who knows, maybe I'll just continue using GrapheneOS. So far I have not had a single issues with it. Apps the rely on attestation do not work, but honestly it's only two applications out of hundreds so I can liv…

I think the EU should pile in as well. It's basically an oven-ready independent mobile OS.

Europe is hostile towards Graphene users.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#77

Post by midoBB »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

Why the surprise, they do the same with search, they do the same with their Google workspace (the degree to which they are pushing AI is really hurting the product). Google stopped being aware of their customer's needs a really long time ago, they are so arrogant they think the audience is now fully captive.

Google's AI in their docs suite is so bafflingly bad. I wanted their AI to automate a sheet for me and it just choked. I switched to Claude for making a sheet that I ended up hosting in my local NAS using Microsoft Excel format.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#78

Post by spwa4 »

RobotToaster wrote: post #68
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

What confuses me is that easy "sideloading" has been the main thing that kept down the proliferation of degoogled custom ROMs.

Well you misunderstand enshittification. It will never get better again. Both Google and Apple have enshittified their phones. You can verify this on the App Store, on the Play Store, both of which have now more than 50% of search result screen space dedicated to ads, more when it comes to scams [1]. AND you can verify this in the financial statements of Apple and Google, where you see what we've always seen in Google: steadily increasing at a fixed rate profits from ads on the play store in Google's case, and steadily increasing at a fixed rate profits from "Services", which is App Store ads.

In Apple's case this has been the only Apple business to grow at all in several of the recent years. In fact there's quite a few Apple businesses that look like they are "revenue neutral", most famously iPads. Google is better, but not by much. Cloud is growing fast ("but why?" is a question that's unanswered. I mean, "because of AI", of course, but ... seriously?)

So not only are they enshittified, and you see them getting worse and worse over time, but the financial statements show: if you're expecting this to get any better either in the Apple or Google case, you're insane. Because clearly ads for scams are worth it for advertisers, and most other types of ads are not worth it. The situation evolves more and more towards the cable channel situation of 20 years back.

You could also reverse the view. The simple question: "are people willing to compromise on hardware quality to get less ads?" has a very clear NO answer. "Are governments/institutions that are totally dependent on these systems willing to pay to either improve phones or make an alternative available?", again has boatloads of evidence that the answer is NO, in all caps.

[1] Search for "credit card" or "lose weight" and judge for yourself. Top results are promoting Apple or Google themselves, everything else are ads, and very bad deals that trivially will neither accomplish the promised financial independence nor weight loss. Or should I put it like this: the credit card deals advertised are so bad they might achieve weight loss. By the way ads designed to mislead, which the top ads for either search obviously are, are what both Google and Apple promised time and again never to do.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#79

Post by clhodapp »

rich_sasha wrote: post #34
MrDresden wrote: post #24

When this whole thing got announced, I purchased a new Pixel 9 and flashed it with GrapheneOS. I am hoping that in about 6-8 years (when I realistically need to update) the landscape might be a bit better. Or who knows, maybe I'll just continue using GrapheneOS. So far I have not had a single issues with it. Apps the rely on attestation do not work, but honestly it's only two applications out of hundreds so I can liv…

I think the EU should pile in as well. It's basically an oven-ready independent mobile OS.

The EU hate GrapheneOS. They chased them out to Canada just last year because they didn't want to put in backdoors for law enforcement.

Re: Google confirms 'high-friction' sideloading flow is coming to Android

#80

Post by karlgkk »

onli wrote: post #56
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Google's long term strategy with Android is baffling to me. Apple has had better mobile hardware for years. Apple has higher consumer trust. Apple has better app selection (for most people). Apple has been increasingly implementing the core features that differentiate Android devices, like USB-C and RCS. Every Android user lost to the increasing iOS market share is another customer Google has to pay exorbitant fees t…

I don't see any iOS advantage with the apps anymore. That was maybe true in the very beginning, during the gold rush time of the app store. But not since then. In which category are there better iOS apps? Browsers? No, strictly worse. Youtube app? No, worse. Texting? Worse or equal (Whatsapp). Podcast client? I assume worse, since there is no Antenna Pod. Social media apps? The iOS variants of those apps are afaik in…

Honestly, you’re so wrong about the app situation that it’s almost staggering. iOS apps tend to be more stable, better polished, have better integration with system features (like the Dynamic Island), and even often have more features. This isn’t even an unfounded opinion, it’s a material problem for Google and led them to vastly investing in automated testing and quality efforts

App addressable user base is another problem for Google, one that they have mentioned in developer conferences. It’s a big part of why they’ve been trying to ship a tablet and unify android and Chromebook. If Google isn’t careful they could find themselves in a downward spiral situation, stuck between apple on one side, and android forks on the other.

And the last answer is, as always, money

- browser is deemphasized on iOS, and so it’s weaker feature set matters less

- iOS is generally easier to develop for because of less device differentiation

- on average iOS has significantly wealthier users who tend to be higher return or paying customers (seriously, look it up). This in turn leads companies to invest more heavily in iOS.

- easier integration due to a narrow system services ecosystem (no Google vs Samsung slapfights)

- unified platform advantage (apps written for iOS easily port to the watch and tablet, unlocking larger markets, and justifying greater spend in developing apps)

- apples review process is significantly stricter (for better or for worse)

Yes, Apple doesn’t have something like fdroid, and that’s really disappointing and honestly a legitimate dealbreaker for a lot of people

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